Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Flutter for Linux

snapcraft.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 225 posts

Re: Flutter for Linux

#201

Post by imtringued »

cutler wrote: post #199
rkangel wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You commented this elsewhere too without elaboration. I'm curious as to what you mean by 'widget hell'. I founded the nested tree of widgets syntax good after getting over the (short) initial learning curve. Some basic good programming practice over shared bits and it was very maintainable even for complex screens.

Why is this style of programming frowned upon in Javascript yet idiomatic in Flutter?

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Javascript developers also use HTML and the ability to nest HTML elements is "idiomatic" as well.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#202

Post by rkangel »

imtringued wrote: post #201
cutler wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this style of programming frowned upon in Javascript yet idiomatic in Flutter?

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Javascript developers also use HTML and the ability to nest HTML elements is "idiomatic" as well.

This is a wonderful answer and much better than what I was about to write.

Flutter Widgets, like HTML are declarative. They're just hierarchical information. This works in HTML, and it works in Flutter - there's nothing to get confused about.

Nested control flow (if statements, loops etc.) obscures the actual behaviour and so good practice is to break it up until it is clear and understandable.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#203

Post by imtringued »

judge2020 wrote: post #81
awill wrote: post #10

Google needs to release desktop apps in Flutter (Youtube Music, Chat, Meet etc..). a Webapp is fine for occasional use, but Google Chat can't compete with Slack without a real app.

Their focus seems to be full-on installable PWAs for everything, which YT Music and YT TV already having them (and PWAs are only marginally better than Electron since they all share the same parent chrome process).

If they share the same process then they are better by orders of magnitude in terms of memory usage. Although not everything should be a PWA, you can still write good PWAs if you want to.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#204

Post by The_rationalist »

kllrnohj wrote: post #125
The_rationalist wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had read that too and I do not understand at all. What is openjdk beyond a runtime VM ? They do not use what truly qualify as openjdk otherwise they would have C2 and G1 and therefore true java 8+ support, for free.

They're using the libraries - the part that Oracle is claiming is copyrighted. The java.* packages.

javax.* is copyrighted and is now copyleft if you use the jakarta.* namespace instead.

as for java.* I don't see how one could have issues, for example Kotlin use and extend the java standard library without any lawsuit. I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors. Their reimplementation (dalvik & ci) is the root of all evil and is technically a mess with antic java support. It's such a shame that we can't have ZGC or senandoah on android...

Re: Flutter for Linux

#205

Post by mathw »

jeffbee wrote: post #94
dahfizz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I can't tell the difference between the slack app and slack open in my browser. It is literally identical. In Firefox, I can even go "full screen" but still control the size and location of the window, so I don't have to look at the tab bar. Side by side, I can't tell them apart visually or functionally. Maybe the Linux version of electron is neutered in some way? I read article you linked and I don't know…

Slack in the browser is visibly superior to the slack app. When I close the tab it's really dead. Great feature. The slack "app" is just their web site and a web browser zipped together in such a way that it doesn't actually quit when you tell it to quit. Why anyone wants that I cannot begin to imagine.

Slack is behaving in the same way as innumerable instant messaging clients in the past, because they consider themselves in that category rather than perhaps in an IRC sort of category which is maybe where you see them?

And there's an option to turn that behaviour off, if you don't like it.

But I would prefer if it wasn't all Electron because it really does feel like the resource overhead is unnecessary. But if it wasn't done with this tech, we probably wouldn't have a Linux client at all, and maybe not a Mac one either, and personally I prefer it to feel like an application instead of having to run it inside a browser.

Kind of hoping Flutter helps advance the situation of cross-platform desktop/web things in a positive way.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#206

Post by Andrex »

jaekash wrote: post #169
Andrex wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still excited because when Canonical backtracks on Snap in a few years (like they seem to always do when trying to push some homegrown aspect of Linux), their Flutter work will still be there and will have seen years of improvements.

That seems like it would be great, except for that it would still be Canonical's work and with everything they do it would probably be better for everyone if they did not bother.

That's not true, their upstream work for Gnome shell after ditching Unity is very appreciated.

Their announcement also pointedly remarks that the Flutter work will benefit "most distributions" of Linux. That's another good sign that this work won't be too tied up in Canonical's fiefdom.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#207

Post by applecrazy »

jeffbee wrote: post #132
sciurus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean. On OS X quitting the app certainly seems to actually quit it

"""By default, your app is set to keep running in the notifications area even when the window is closed. Choosing not to leave the app running will remove the Slack icon and badges from your notifications area."""

On macOS, closing all an app’s windows ≠ quitting an application.

When you Command-Q Slack, it should close completely (which afaik it does).

Re: Flutter for Linux

#208

Post by kllrnohj »

The_rationalist wrote: post #204
kllrnohj wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using the libraries - the part that Oracle is claiming is copyrighted. The java.* packages.

javax.* is copyrighted and is now copyleft if you use the jakarta.* namespace instead. as for java.* I don't see how one could have issues, for example Kotlin use and extend the java standard library without any lawsuit. I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors. Their reimplementation (d…

> I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors.

Your belief is firmly incorrect. The "copied code" claim was for a 9-line rangeCheck function and was otherwise dropped. The main claim is entirely that the java.* API definitions are copyrighted, and therefore Google's clean room re-implementation of the APIs still violates the copyright of the API itself.

Which is a lawsuit that Oracle won, by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America#First...

The open question at this point is whether a clean-room re-implementation of a copyrighted API for the purposes of compatibility is considered fair use or not. Which so far Oracle has been winning. Which means approximately everything is in copyright violation in the tech world. POSIX, for example, took the API from commercial Unix OS's of the time. The current owners of Unix, Micro Focus, could sue approximately everyone if Oracle wins.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#209

Post by jeffbee »

applecrazy wrote: post #207
jeffbee wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"""By default, your app is set to keep running in the notifications area even when the window is closed. Choosing not to leave the app running will remove the Slack icon and badges from your notifications area."""

On macOS, closing all an app’s windows ≠ quitting an application. When you Command-Q Slack, it should close completely (which afaik it does).

Great, that is a platform that exists, that I bet has almost 10% of Slack's market share.

Re: Flutter for Linux

#210

Post by heavyset_go »

cutler wrote: post #198
heavyset_go wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would be great if you all can say something about how you can get over / stay sane with the staircase looking nesting of code blocks and how you manage to keep it all in your head to navigate the code base. The same way you would in any other code base, with the ample use of names and modules, and breaking nested components and logic into their own classes and functions. The problem is that it requires disciplin…

Trouble is that in most Flutter code the widget staircase is idiomatic. Swift UI also seems to have chosen the same path.

You're downvoted, but I agree. It's unfortunate, but that is why I say that discipline or an enforced style guide is required.
Post reply on HN