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MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

blog.torproject.org

31–40 of 151 posts

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#31
post #2

I'm pro decentralizing the internet, but these movements really need some marketing chops. ".onion" TLD? (Yes I know it has been around for awhile) Think of how a normal person will view a ".onion" domain name. It's nonsensical to the uninitiated.

Maybe they will remember Shrek's famous speech.

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#32
post #2

I'm pro decentralizing the internet, but these movements really need some marketing chops. ".onion" TLD? (Yes I know it has been around for awhile) Think of how a normal person will view a ".onion" domain name. It's nonsensical to the uninitiated.

A normal person won’t be able to access an onion site, let alone care about the pop up they’re getting about its availability. I’ve watched people navigate web pages with the half screen cookie banner still open. Tor is not targeting a “normal” person, as the media has already told the “normal” people that the only things available on the “dark”/“deep” web are illegal.

I'm one of those people that leave it open. I think I instinctively just avoid clicking on any pop up/over on a page.

That being said, I am curious what happens if you don't click "accept" on those ones. I'm assuming you're implicitly accepting by not leaving?

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#34
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last century "network" and "web" were metaphors that meant nothing to the uninitiated -- I feel that ".onion" has a shot.

"Web" definitely meant something to people as a metaphore, for long before the internet (ex. "web of lies"). "The 'internet' is like a spider's web, but each point in the web is a different computer." vs "Tor is like an onion, where each layer of the onion represents a computer acting like a relay, in a giant network of computers, which your traffic is routed through....."

There is a scene in Shrek where he compares himself to an onion because he was emotional layers.

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#35
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about http, ://, www and other TLDs like .co.nz or .ac.uk? All of these were pretty meaningless to initiates of the internet. In this new age of ".pizza" and suchlike, ".onion" doesn't seem much different or weird tbh. (To be clear: I don't think these new tlds are especially good either, but it's the world we live in now.)

To me, .onion reminds me too much of The Onion.

The Onion really needs an .onion site.

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#36
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The website cannot identify who they are, what ISP they use, or where they live. Similarly, middleboxes such as their ISP cannot find out what websites they are browsing, which is still easily possible even with TLS via many methods (DNS, SNI, IP correlation, many others)

What I mean is, how is a .onion website over tor better than an https website over tor? I edited my comment to clarify.

In theory no one can spoof a Tor hidden service. The service name itself encodes the public key, and only the corresponding private key can authenticate. Much better than https, where you have many dozens of "trusted" authorities, any one of which can compromise you.

And also it precludes any attacks a malicious exit node could run on your https traffic, like the other comment says

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is, how is a .onion website over tor better than an https website over tor? I edited my comment to clarify.

The traffic never leaves the Tor network. This has a few advantages: * You don't need a TLS certificate from a public certificate authority, as it is already encrypted end to end * The exit node cannot attempt to snoop on your traffic (via TLS SNI) or inject content/ads/exploits into your unencrypted traffic * It reduces load on the exit nodes so they can work on serving traffic to sites that don't have an .onion end…

If certificate authorities are a concern, then why do some onion services use https?

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#38
CloudFlare had a much more elegant solution: the Alt-Svc HTTP header [1]. It is entirely transparent to the user. Security is guaranteed because it uses the original SSL/TLS certificate for exchange (that is, on top of the usual safety guarantees provided by a Tor hidden service).

Sadly they stopped doing that a while ago [2]. If anyone has insider knowledge about the reason behind, I would be really interested to hear about it.

[1]: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-onion-service/

[2]: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/tor-alt-svc-header-not-be...

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#39
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly this is one of the few non-financial areas where blockchain-like technologies make sense: anonymously creating and routing connections. Right now, you can encrypt the contents of your email, but there is no hiding who is the recipient and who is the sender, certainly not from the mail service on either end. Until you solve that problem (for example, by posting encrypted versions on a public blockchain), you n…

Look up remailers, think Tor for e-mail. No blockchain necessary. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk_anonymous_remaile...

Are remailers in a healthy state at the moment? Do large email providers accept mail sent through them or just mark it as spam?

Re: MoreOnionsPorfavor: Onionize your website and take back the internet

#40
I'm in charge of a security for a reasonable sized company. I generally support the Tor project and the goals of having a surveillance free internet.

However - if an employee would install tor browser or use tor on a company device, or a device attached to the company network, they would be fired immediately. I would then refer them to law enforcement after conducting a forensic audit.

Should you make your site only available via onion routing, or primarily available on onion routing, all workplaces will immediately block access and look at anyone who accesses with great incredulity

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