Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
1–10 of 18 posts
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#2Ms. Delaney has also written a full-length book, "Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem", which I haven't read all the way through but which appears to be a more thorough treatment of the material covered in this article.
(Disclaimer: personally acquainted with the author.)
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#3For some reason, in the English wikipedia article for Christopher Columbus [1] you can read: "Christopher Columbus... was an Italian master navigator who...".
On the other hand, the article about the theories of Christopher Columbus' origin [2] says: "The exact ethnic or national origin of Christopher Columbus (1451-1506) has been a source of speculation since the 19th century".
Considering this, and the fact that Italy became the nation we know around the 19th century, I wonder why the (semi-protected) article reads like that. I think it should be updated.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_theories_of_Christopher...
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#4For some reason, in the English wikipedia article for Christopher Columbus [1] you can read: " Christopher Columbus... was an Italian master navigator who... ". On the other hand, the article about the theories of Christopher Columbus' origin [2] says: " The exact ethnic or national origin of Christopher Columbus (1451-1506) has been a source of speculation since the 19th century ". Considering this, and the fact tha…
I don't know about Columbus in particular, but most famous people like him have people from different countries continuously edit warring over which country gets to "claim" him. I'll check the talk page ... yep, half the talk is arguing about this.
(As an American, I find this phenomenon extremely silly and very foreign feeling. I don't really care whether "my" ancestors get credit for something or not, especially given that national boundaries and people move around all the time. I find it vaguely nationalistic in the ugly sense. Maybe it's because there were plenty of great Americans who were clearly not born here in the first place?)
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#5For some reason, in the English wikipedia article for Christopher Columbus [1] you can read: " Christopher Columbus... was an Italian master navigator who... ". On the other hand, the article about the theories of Christopher Columbus' origin [2] says: " The exact ethnic or national origin of Christopher Columbus (1451-1506) has been a source of speculation since the 19th century ". Considering this, and the fact tha…
Italians identified as Italians way before Italy was a state, Italia as a region was defined in the roman empire, and the populace recognize unity even under the different domination and independent kingdoms that rose and fall until unification.
There's also no doubt about Columbus origin, there's a bunch of rumors and propaganda amplified by people repeating them as if these are well researched theories - notice instead how a Norwegian is claiming it's Norwegian, a Portuguese it's claiming it's Portuguese, a Polish is claiming it's Polish.. and quite many of these writing were wrote during the rise of ultranationalisms across Europe. Not hard to figure out the pattern there.
Shame having to defend his Italianità after the tragedy of his actions, but still.
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#6It's interesting that the author seems to think that focusing on the religiousness of Columbus somehow mitigates the horror of what he did, as if any religious person of the time would have behaved the same way, but there were other religious people with him who objected strenuously to his treatment of native americans and slavery.
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#7For some reason, in the English wikipedia article for Christopher Columbus [1] you can read: " Christopher Columbus... was an Italian master navigator who... ". On the other hand, the article about the theories of Christopher Columbus' origin [2] says: " The exact ethnic or national origin of Christopher Columbus (1451-1506) has been a source of speculation since the 19th century ". Considering this, and the fact tha…
Italians identified as Italians way before Italy was a state, Italia as a region was defined in the roman empire, and the populace recognize unity even under the different domination and independent kingdoms that rose and fall until unification. There's also no doubt about Columbus origin, there's a bunch of rumors and propaganda amplified by people repeating them as if these are well researched theories - notice ins…
It's funny to observe how in these nationalistic debates about great figures in history, it's always Germans arguing that the person in German, Poles arguing that the person is Polish, Slovenians arguing that the person in Slovenian, etc. If these were honest debates, there might be a Pole arguing that the person is German, a German arguing that they're Slovenian, and a Slovenian arguing that they're Polish.
The most bitter debate I've ever seen of this nature is about the nationality of Copernicus. He lived in Royal Prussia, an autonomous dependency of the Kingdom of Poland. His native language was German, but he wrote in Latin, and he's known by the Latinized form of his name. He studied in Bologna. So was he Prussian, Polish, German or could Italy perhaps claim him? Or does none of this matter, because he was born long before the age of nationalism?
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#8Well, it's not surprising giving the time period and the Chivalric ideas that went with it. (Late Medieval period) The Reconquista had just finished up in Spain, and the Ottomans were now bursting on the scene in the Eastern Mediterranean. Columbus was a bit of a Zealot and believed that god spoke to him personally.
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Italians identified as Italians way before Italy was a state, Italia as a region was defined in the roman empire, and the populace recognize unity even under the different domination and independent kingdoms that rose and fall until unification. There's also no doubt about Columbus origin, there's a bunch of rumors and propaganda amplified by people repeating them as if these are well researched theories - notice ins…
It's funny to observe how in these nationalistic debates about great figures in history, it's always Germans arguing that the person in German, Poles arguing that the person is Polish, Slovenians arguing that the person in Slovenian, etc. If these were honest debates, there might be a Pole arguing that the person is German, a German arguing that they're Slovenian, and a Slovenian arguing that they're Polish. The most…
Re: Columbus’s Ultimate Goal: Jerusalem (2006) [pdf]
#10For some reason, in the English wikipedia article for Christopher Columbus [1] you can read: " Christopher Columbus... was an Italian master navigator who... ". On the other hand, the article about the theories of Christopher Columbus' origin [2] says: " The exact ethnic or national origin of Christopher Columbus (1451-1506) has been a source of speculation since the 19th century ". Considering this, and the fact tha…
I don't know about Columbus in particular, but most famous people like him have people from different countries continuously edit warring over which country gets to "claim" him. I'll check the talk page ... yep, half the talk is arguing about this. (As an American, I find this phenomenon extremely silly and very foreign feeling. I don't really care whether "my" ancestors get credit for something or not, especially gi…
> (As an American, I find this phenomenon extremely silly and very foreign feeling. I don't really care whether "my" ancestors get credit for something or not, especially given that national boundaries and people move around all the time. I find it vaguely nationalistic in the ugly sense. Maybe it's because there were plenty of great Americans who were clearly not born here in the first place?)
Most of the countries in the America are largely populated by immigrants and their descendants, and have a relatively shallow history of culture [1], which gives them few opportunities to engage in these arguments, and little reason to care about the result.
[1] I should note here that the fact that the modern countries do not derive authority from any pre-existing indigenous polities gives them little influence in the development of culture.