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How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
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Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#12I recently started blogging at http://www.rationalpoker.com , there's an intro post at http://lesswrong.com/lw/4yk/verifying_rationality_via_ration... , if you're curious.
I have several self-recognized cognitive biases that make me a terrible poker player. I hate to give up on something once I start. If I start reading a terrible book, it burns me because I feel obligated to finish. This also means its pretty tough for me to fold a hand after I've been had. Given this bias, I've predicted that my highest EV move in poker is not to play. (By the way, take out the extra periods from you…
You mean you would have a hard time forcing yourself to throw away a worthless hand (in Texas hold'em) after you already committed some money to the pot? Even if, e.g., you called in late position pre-flop with a bad hand just because the pot odds required it?
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#13The prob with..every..mainstream story on (e)poker is the unflinching marketing élan of the writers, and necessity to give a (stil truly) sub-terranean slice of life immediate resonance to the audience. Not too encroach upon anyone's character or existence, let alone the actual people in the article... Poker is an inexorable gambit; both in lifestyle (subjectively define by 'sanity', and career (objectively define bu…
The most important point that you made is that poker brings nothing to the table for a player except money. You learn little that can be monetized away from the table, and spend your time building a bankroll instead of building a business that has value other than the money it brings in. Poker doesn't scale. The goal is to increase your hourly rate. Spend your time coding.
No. way.
Playing poker with PEOPLE, at least (not online) has enormous benefits. Learning how to read people in-depth is incredibly valuable. Also learning how to stand your ground and unflinchingly bluff (or deliberatly avoid telegraphing your hand) is also a great skill to have.
There's so much more to poker than the money. Unless you're talking only about online poker.
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#14I would badly like to sit this guy down with 'young poker hotshot' expected lifetime net worth graph, median lifetime net worth graph and 'likelihood you will go broke' worksheet, and convince him to dump $3mm into T-bills.
Oh well. I wouldn't have listened either when I was his age.
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
The most important point that you made is that poker brings nothing to the table for a player except money. You learn little that can be monetized away from the table, and spend your time building a bankroll instead of building a business that has value other than the money it brings in. Poker doesn't scale. The goal is to increase your hourly rate. Spend your time coding.
No. way. Playing poker with PEOPLE, at least (not online) has enormous benefits. Learning how to read people in-depth is incredibly valuable. Also learning how to stand your ground and unflinchingly bluff (or deliberatly avoid telegraphing your hand) is also a great skill to have. There's so much more to poker than the money. Unless you're talking only about online poker.
> Learning how to read people in-depth is incredibly valuable.
You think that playing poker teaches you how to read people past the poker table? In what context? This sounds very delusional to me. In business, if you are doing anything with a lot of money at stake (that is not illicit), then the cards are always face up if you do enough work.
> Also learning how to stand your ground and unflinchingly bluff (or deliberatly avoid telegraphing your hand) is also a great skill to have.
You think this is a "great" skill? I think its valuable, but not as valuable as learning code or understanding how the economy works.
Also, you didn't even mention discipline or emotional control. Those are real values that poker will teach you. Bankroll management, dealing with long term variance, and getting bad beats make you either toughen up or break.
How old are you? How long have you been playing poker? I don't mean it derogatorily. I've played A LOT of poker and I've done a lot of other things. Poker has given me less skills than organizing soccer games.
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
The most important point that you made is that poker brings nothing to the table for a player except money. You learn little that can be monetized away from the table, and spend your time building a bankroll instead of building a business that has value other than the money it brings in. Poker doesn't scale. The goal is to increase your hourly rate. Spend your time coding.
No. way. Playing poker with PEOPLE, at least (not online) has enormous benefits. Learning how to read people in-depth is incredibly valuable. Also learning how to stand your ground and unflinchingly bluff (or deliberatly avoid telegraphing your hand) is also a great skill to have. There's so much more to poker than the money. Unless you're talking only about online poker.
I think you may be romanticizing things slightly. While it seems like this may be the case, the reality is people who play like this are both rare and glamorized such that they attract others to the game. The glamorization of poker was nothing but a marketing ploy by online sites. Is there more to poker then money? Sure, but this could be said about industry that is primarily about money, to the point were it loses all meaning.
Sure poker teaches you a lot, but you could get the same thing running a lemonade stand. You have to realize that the "skills" poker teaches is nothing but marketing fluff. This is why you see people coming from other skills and going into poker. I haven't heard a lot about going the other way (of course I am sure it exists). The fact is it is just about money.
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#17The prob with..every..mainstream story on (e)poker is the unflinching marketing élan of the writers, and necessity to give a (stil truly) sub-terranean slice of life immediate resonance to the audience. Not too encroach upon anyone's character or existence, let alone the actual people in the article... Poker is an inexorable gambit; both in lifestyle (subjectively define by 'sanity', and career (objectively define bu…
The most important point that you made is that poker brings nothing to the table for a player except money. You learn little that can be monetized away from the table, and spend your time building a bankroll instead of building a business that has value other than the money it brings in. Poker doesn't scale. The goal is to increase your hourly rate. Spend your time coding.
Maybe your goal is to increase your "hourly rate", but I find it crazy that you think increasing your "hourly rate" is the only valuation for self worth.
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#18The prob with..every..mainstream story on (e)poker is the unflinching marketing élan of the writers, and necessity to give a (stil truly) sub-terranean slice of life immediate resonance to the audience. Not too encroach upon anyone's character or existence, let alone the actual people in the article... Poker is an inexorable gambit; both in lifestyle (subjectively define by 'sanity', and career (objectively define bu…
The most important point that you made is that poker brings nothing to the table for a player except money. You learn little that can be monetized away from the table, and spend your time building a bankroll instead of building a business that has value other than the money it brings in. Poker doesn't scale. The goal is to increase your hourly rate. Spend your time coding.
Actually, being a good poker player can help you get into YC. From Andrew Warner (of Mixergy.com) interview with Paul Graham (pg is the interviewee below):
"Andrew: What kind of things does an entrepreneur do to fool you into thinking that they’re really determined?
Interviewee: Well, being seeming really tough and calm during the interview. I mean, why am I telling people about this guy?
Andrew: Because you guys are going to get better, and as long as this information is out there, you might as well get it all the way out there in even playing field.
Interviewee: There’s the danger of life. Matt Maroon of Blue Frog gaming. He was a professional poker player, talk about pokerfaced. So, he came in for his interview and he just seemed like absolutely unflappable. We thought, ‘Boy, this guy is tough. This guy is not a wimp.’ Actually, we were right, he was really tough. But, to this day, he is genuinely unflappable. I probably would want to fund more people who are really good poker players. I’ve noticed, empirically, there seems to be a high correlation between playing poker and being a successful startup founder. That’s how he seemed tough."
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. way. Playing poker with PEOPLE, at least (not online) has enormous benefits. Learning how to read people in-depth is incredibly valuable. Also learning how to stand your ground and unflinchingly bluff (or deliberatly avoid telegraphing your hand) is also a great skill to have. There's so much more to poker than the money. Unless you're talking only about online poker.
> Learning how to read people in-depth is incredibly valuable. You think that playing poker teaches you how to read people past the poker table? In what context? This sounds very delusional to me. In business, if you are doing anything with a lot of money at stake (that is not illicit), then the cards are always face up if you do enough work. > Also learning how to stand your ground and unflinchingly bluff (or delibe…
I'm 24. I'm certainly not a pro, either. I'm not arguing these skills are the best skills anyone could have, I'm trying to convey that the intuition and instinct built up over time playing with people has some value, and that value isn't insignificant.
I failed to convey this, though. I totally agree with your points about disciple and emotional control. I just can't help but feel the skills I've gotten from playing poker with people are valuable. Who you play with matters a great deal, of course. I've gotten job offers based on my poker game not because I was a star or anything, but because I successfully illustrated my ability to execute strategy well. Etc. Etc. I turned down the jobs, by the way.
End of rant.
Re: How one guy turned his C&C skills into millions with online poker
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
The most important point that you made is that poker brings nothing to the table for a player except money. You learn little that can be monetized away from the table, and spend your time building a bankroll instead of building a business that has value other than the money it brings in. Poker doesn't scale. The goal is to increase your hourly rate. Spend your time coding.
Actually, being a good poker player can help you get into YC. From Andrew Warner (of Mixergy.com) interview with Paul Graham (pg is the interviewee below): "Andrew: What kind of things does an entrepreneur do to fool you into thinking that they’re really determined? Interviewee: Well, being seeming really tough and calm during the interview. I mean, why am I telling people about this guy? Andrew: Because you guys are…
Awesome counter.