Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Searchable PPP Loan Data

pppreport.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 354 posts

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#251

Post by three_seagrass »

Firerouge wrote: post #247
greatwave1 wrote: post #8

I'm working on a dashboard to map each of these loans geographically: https://www.quiverquant.com/sources/sbaloans It's a slow process (as I've been respectful of the rate-limit on the reverse geocoding API I'm using), but I finished mapping four states and hope to complete the other 46 by the end of this week.

One thing I noticed is that my local Domino's got $150-300k, but that it was behind a different LLC name. Is it possible to add a ggogle maps business name listing based on address next to the reported company name?

Yep, automotive car dealers in my area have different names on their LLC and the dealership. It's a tough one to crack but implementing google street view would solve 70% of the checks.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#252

Post by dopamean »

luckylion wrote: post #244
dopamean wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the loan isn't designed to be paid back. So what are you getting at?

If it's not designed to be paid back, is it a loan? noun: loan; plural noun: loans a thing that is borrowed, especially a sum of money that is expected to be paid back with interest. Is it just called a loan because that sounds better than just calling it a subsidy?

So the issue is with what the government is calling it?

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#253

Post by jacobsenscott »

_curious_ wrote: post #182
odonnellryan wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay taxes. You should take what the government gives you in return. I suppose there are many opinions here, but I have plenty of friends who refuse to take unemployment insurance, when they've paid into it for years (sometimes decades).

Why do you think that is?

Some people think it is charity (it isn't) and they are too proud to take charity. Some people fear they will be less employable if they do because it is a record of a gap in employment.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#254

Post by WrongThinkerNo5 »

gm wrote: post #245

Just so you all know, Twitter's going crazy with the apparent rampant inaccuracy of the database.

Is the complain about the DB of the website or the raw data is inaccurate?

The former I can shrug off as insignificant, the latter is mildly terrifying and makes you wonder how the hell we can trust anything the government does when they can't even take care of keeping track of triple billons of dollars of other people's ... namely, people who did not get any stimulus ... money.

But I guess the bureaucrats and kleptocratic government must have been ramping it up after the billions upon billions they "lost" in Iraq without a trace. This is probably going to turn into politicians and bureaucrats throwing up their hands when companies claim that the information is inaccurate and they owe nothing and the government cannot prove anything, a la, housing fraud.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#255

Post by throwaway_USD »

eric_b wrote: post #220
throwaway_USD wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"what about the nail salon who has 14 employees and took 5-10M?!?!". If true that is an obvious case of fraud and you are making my point, the only time a loan will be repaid is if the money was spent on things other than payroll...which amounts to fraud. Who cares if its a nail salon? Math is math, if you have 14 employees the maximum eligibility would be 8 weeks of payroll with a cap at $100k salary + up to an add…

I know lots of folks who got PPP loans. I don't know anyone who's getting 100% of their loan forgiven. Mainly because they took 2.5x monthly payroll as a loan - but then did an 8 week covered period (2x monthly payroll). Most of them will owe ~20% of the loan back to their lender since they had minimal other expenses.

>Most of them will owe ~20% of the loan back to their lender since they had minimal other expenses.

That was my entire point is that the loans were designed to forgive a minimum of 75% of the loan, but it is 100% forgiven if they limited their loan application to 8 weeks of payroll.

All the people you know took 20% more for salary than they were supposed to and they should pay it back. Even based on your personal experience you should know this isn't the way to describe the program:

>These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid back unless some or all is forgiven.

Rather in your personal experience most of the loans will be 80% forgiven.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#256

Post by lgats »

For some more digging, here is a list of S.E.C. registered companies loosely matched to the dataset using the company name: https://pppreport.org/sec.php

-list contains any company with a ticker [current/previous OTC stock or other]

-likely to contain many false associations, but still full of surprises

   $NTN, $6.3m Market Cap
   $TRNF, $22m Market Cap
   $FAT, $40m Market Cap
   each received 1-2 million in PPP

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#257

Post by schoolornot »

digitaltrees wrote: post #217
mardifoufs wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize just how perilous the economic situation was in mid-late march. Money had to reach Businesses very quickly, regardless if some of the money would end up wasted. Only banks have the manpower, infrastructure and knowledge already in place to reach even small businesses across the entire country. There was absolutely no way for any governmental agency to be able to manage such a huge program in…

Great response. I wish all of the people criticizing these efforts would actually try to design a better program. Even the thought exercise would show how difficult it would be. Easier to crap on the work of others than actually do it yourself. I also wish they would think about the consequences of no action. They probably don’t realize that cascade bank failures and supply chain disruptions happen fast and become pe…

I remain unconvinced that so many companies were on "thin ice" that a do nothing approach would have caused a collapse. Any evidence of this?

I would've been okay-ish with the arrangement if there was some narrow qualification criteria like being in the grocery business or medical supply chain, etc.

Fine dining restaurants: not essential Summer camps: not essential Non-profits: not essential Law firms: not essential either!

And yet we paid them millions... _why?_

I picked a random company from the 150k list. A pizza place, around the corner. Been in business since 2007. They received $150,000-350,000. So a place deemed essential by the governor and that's permitted to operate curbside and takeout delivery after being open for 13 years is eligible for 150k? What kind of drugs are we on?

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#258

Post by lotsofpulp »

digitaltrees wrote: post #235
lotsofpulp wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only if your employer has laid you off. If they continued your employment or called you back to work for $12/hour, you aren’t eligible for unemployment anymore. And if you refuse to go back to work, then you are also not eligible for unemployment benefits.

Many managers like their employees and don’t want to stiff them like that. My point was the argument that the government design PPP as an effort to perpetuate an existing system that reduces employees bargaining power and prefers businesses can’t be supported when the government specifically strengthen employees bargaining power.

I contend it didn’t strengthen the employees’ bargaining power, for the reasons I stated above. Unconditional cash would have.

The powers that be know that loans obligations have been made that can only be satisfied if labor costs remain contained. Their primary objective is to make sure the mortgages keep getting paid, and paying employees double would endanger that.

An easy illustration is the fact that “essential” employees at much higher risk of getting the virus are getting paid with their old near minimum wage per hour jobs with signs that say “heroes work here”, and their management bosses are working safely at home with minimal risk of covid earning the same pay.

White collar employees continue to earn higher salaries from the safety of their home, and “hero” janitors and housekeepers are getting the same $10 to $15 they received as before, except they get to deal with higher chances of coronavirus.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#259

Post by jacobsenscott »

tfandango wrote: post #26

Just looking through my home town for businesses I know about... A fair number of them I know carried on with business as usual and had no financial problems (one I used to work for). Seems wrong when there are lots of people in the same town lining up outside the unemployment office every day...

You wouldn't know if companies you don't work for are having financial problems. Most of the time you don't know even when working there until it all crashes down.

These loans don't cause unemployment. Those same people would be unemployed even if those same businesses didn't apply for the loan.

We are only a few months into a multi year pandemic, so even if a company isn't suffering yet, they most likely will be soon. Getting a loan while it is available to preserve jobs as long as possible as the pandemic gets worse sounds like a sensible and ethical thing to do.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#260

Post by eric_b »

throwaway_USD wrote: post #255
eric_b wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know lots of folks who got PPP loans. I don't know anyone who's getting 100% of their loan forgiven. Mainly because they took 2.5x monthly payroll as a loan - but then did an 8 week covered period (2x monthly payroll). Most of them will owe ~20% of the loan back to their lender since they had minimal other expenses.

>Most of them will owe ~20% of the loan back to their lender since they had minimal other expenses. That was my entire point is that the loans were designed to forgive a minimum of 75% of the loan, but it is 100% forgiven if they limited their loan application to 8 weeks of payroll. All the people you know took 20% more for salary than they were supposed to and they should pay it back. Even based on your personal exp…

Eh, I think the way I described it was fine. These are loans. I don't know anyone who's had even a single dollar forgiven yet. As far as I know there has been no official "forgiveness".

What do you call a loan that you still owe? A loan. Once the forgiveness guidance is finalized and people are actually receiving it, then perhaps I will recharacterize my description.

Post reply on HN