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Searchable PPP Loan Data

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Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#231

Post by mbesto »

_curious_ wrote: post #190
mbesto wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forgiveness requires documentation on employees retained, wage history, and is capped at $20k/employee maximum. And of course a piece of that comes back to the government in terms of payroll taxes. Just because a company took a 1M loan, doesn't mean it will be 100% forgiven. I think your misunderstanding is that the rules actually get followed. What happens when everyone in the scheme comes back and says "the econo…

"It's far too political to introduce/enforce anything that makes unemployment numbers worse. It's like a "too big to fail" on a much larger order of magnitude." Yes and ?

It makes the overall premise of the rules moot. There are no incentives for any business NOT to take advantage; thus creates a zero sum game provided by tax payers that enhances the rich. In other words, it's just kicking the can down the road for the poor to pick up the pieces.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#233

Post by nkohari »

mc32 wrote: post #108
tinalumfoil wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should they not have taken it? I seriously considered not cashing my stimulus check until I talked to multiple well off people that cashed their dead relative's checks. There just isnt a cultural expectation in the US that you wouldn't take what you're given. EDIT: Rethinking my comment I'm giving myself too much credit. Since I never got a physical check, I couldn't have "not cashed it" if I wanted to.

>’ cashed their dead relative's checks.’ Unless there is some weird allowance (widower/widow inheritance, etc.) wouldn’t this be straight fraud? I know in some countries people don’t report their relatives’ deaths in order to keep receiving their benefits, but obviously that’s illegal too.

Almost certainly, yes.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#234

Post by digitaltrees »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #20
pkulak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things only frustrate me if they aren't loans, which they would be, right?

No, they're not really loans, they are basically free money. They only have to be paid back if you end up firing the workers you were supposed to keep employed with the loan. If they stay employed then your "loan" is fully forgiven.

That’s not really free money. It’s money earmarked for employees or to maintain some basic infrastructure so employees have a place to work.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#235

Post by digitaltrees »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #221
digitaltrees wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you can make this argument when at the same time the government was paying an extra $600 per week on top of regular pay for unemployment.

That’s only if your employer has laid you off. If they continued your employment or called you back to work for $12/hour, you aren’t eligible for unemployment anymore. And if you refuse to go back to work, then you are also not eligible for unemployment benefits.

Many managers like their employees and don’t want to stiff them like that.

My point was the argument that the government design PPP as an effort to perpetuate an existing system that reduces employees bargaining power and prefers businesses can’t be supported when the government specifically strengthen employees bargaining power.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#236

Post by robbyt »

reaperducer wrote: post #142
earthscienceman wrote: post #60

I love that an official SBA/federal release can have a file titled: "PPP loan data key things to keep in mind FINAL- Sunday.pdf". Nothing says "over-it" like all caps "FINAL-Sunday". Also, maybe even funnier, is that the "Ayn Rand Institute" applied for a loan... that's the best thing in the database I've found so far.

It doesn't say "over it." It means it's the final revision. This is very common terminology among people who prepare documents like journalists, editors, public relations, etc...

Also, working on a government project on a Sunday is very common for people who probably do not like their job.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#238

Post by acdanger »

eric_b wrote: post #220
throwaway_USD wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"what about the nail salon who has 14 employees and took 5-10M?!?!". If true that is an obvious case of fraud and you are making my point, the only time a loan will be repaid is if the money was spent on things other than payroll...which amounts to fraud. Who cares if its a nail salon? Math is math, if you have 14 employees the maximum eligibility would be 8 weeks of payroll with a cap at $100k salary + up to an add…

I know lots of folks who got PPP loans. I don't know anyone who's getting 100% of their loan forgiven. Mainly because they took 2.5x monthly payroll as a loan - but then did an 8 week covered period (2x monthly payroll). Most of them will owe ~20% of the loan back to their lender since they had minimal other expenses.

I believe that ~20% portion is forgivable as well so long as it was an approved expense and they the ~80% was put towards payroll.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#239

Post by junar »

mc32 wrote: post #108
tinalumfoil wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should they not have taken it? I seriously considered not cashing my stimulus check until I talked to multiple well off people that cashed their dead relative's checks. There just isnt a cultural expectation in the US that you wouldn't take what you're given. EDIT: Rethinking my comment I'm giving myself too much credit. Since I never got a physical check, I couldn't have "not cashed it" if I wanted to.

>’ cashed their dead relative's checks.’ Unless there is some weird allowance (widower/widow inheritance, etc.) wouldn’t this be straight fraud? I know in some countries people don’t report their relatives’ deaths in order to keep receiving their benefits, but obviously that’s illegal too.

Yes, people should not be cashing checks for the deceased, but part of the issue was that the IRS was sending them out in the first place before deciding that they shouldn't have.

> Q13. Why did the IRS send Economic Impact Payments (EIPs) to deceased individuals? (added June 26, 2020)

> A13. Upon enactment of the CARES Act, the IRS worked with unprecedented speed to issue Economic Impact Payments to individuals. The IRS initially implemented the legislation consistent with processes and requirements used with the 2008 stimulus payments, which resulted in EIPs being issued to certain deceased individuals. After further review, it was determined that such persons are ineligible, and the IRS has taken action to prevent future payments to deceased individuals.

https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/economic-impact-payment-info...

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#240

Post by adrr »

JPKab wrote: post #129
eric_b wrote: post #77

So many complaints here. Based on the comments I think there is some misunderstanding about the nuts and bolts of this program. These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid back unless some or all is forgiven. Forgiveness requires documentation on employees retained, wage history, and is capped at $20k/employee maximum. And of course a piece of that comes back to the government in terms…

There's a lot of weirdness lately about people expecting companies to not take the money. The virus wasn't any company's fault. The choice to respond to the virus by shutting down the economy wasn't any company's fault. Previous epidemics in human history have been dealt with by simply accepting a death rate that modern society, via government policy, has chosen to not accept. This was an unprecedented response that…

Not all businesses shutdown. The issue is that a bunch of businesses took the free money who didn’t need it. We made a choice not to take it because we are booming during crisis. The stimulus checks had criteria to receive them and most people who are doing very well did not get a stimulus check. PPP could easily had a requirement that it had to be paid back if sales/rev increased during 2020 tax year. Instead the more likely scenario is that businesses that were most affected by covid will have to pay back the loan because their revenue fell to 0 and they had to cut employees. This money isn’t free, it is added to our national debt.
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