Searchable PPP Loan Data • Hacker News Board

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#171

Post by eric_b » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

throwaway_USD wrote: post #113

eric_b wrote: post #77

So many complaints here. Based on the comments I think there is some misunderstanding about the nuts and bolts of this program. These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid back unless some or all is forgiven. Forgiveness requires documentation on employees retained, wage history, and is capped at $20k/employee maximum. And of course a piece of that comes back to the government in terms…

>These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid back unless some or all is forgiven. This is a highly politicized way to frame PPP loans. Its more like: "These loans are forgiven, unless you scammed the government." These loans were specifically designed to be forgiven, a minimum of 75% of the loan was to be for payroll and if used for payroll (what it was supposed to be used for) that po…

Politicized? Give it a rest.

Yes, if a company spent 60% (down from 75%) of their loan on payroll, and does not exceed the 20k cap per employee, and retained the same number of employees they had at the beginning of the covered period, and can document all this, and they followed the initial SBA guidance when deciding how big of a loan to apply for, then they will get most or all of the loan forgiven.

There are lots of comments here about "what about the nail salon who has 14 employees and took 5-10M?!?!". Well, assuming that isn't just a case of bad data, there is no reasonable expectation that the loan will be forgiven in it's entirety. The majority will need to be returned to the lender plus interest.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#172

Post by sajit » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

Admire the transperancy.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#173

Post by fullstop » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

ksdale wrote: post #151

fullstop wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any penalty for increasing wages after receiving the "loan" ?

Increasing whose wages?

Those who are having their Paycheck Protected.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#174

Post by bane » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #77

So many complaints here. Based on the comments I think there is some misunderstanding about the nuts and bolts of this program. These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid back unless some or all is forgiven. Forgiveness requires documentation on employees retained, wage history, and is capped at $20k/employee maximum. And of course a piece of that comes back to the government in terms…

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/here-are-some...

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#175

Post by digitaltrees » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #114

_fullpint wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my original comment was misinformed

Actually, the PPP was re-funded and was set to expire a week ago with $130 billion unused until they extended it until August.

I’ve said this a few times above but I’ll say it here. The funds are unused because the SBA threatened to criminal prosecute borrowers for obtaining loans when “they had alternative capital”. Lots of businesses owners worried that if they had home equity or credit cards available that would be “alternative capital” and they would go to jail.

After the SBA guidance application volume dropped off a cliff so the SBA, backpedaling, issued new guidance that they wouldn’t audit loans under $2M, but by then no one wanted to take the risk.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#176

Post by koolba » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

earthscienceman wrote: post #60

I love that an official SBA/federal release can have a file titled: "PPP loan data key things to keep in mind FINAL- Sunday.pdf". Nothing says "over-it" like all caps "FINAL-Sunday". Also, maybe even funnier, is that the "Ayn Rand Institute" applied for a loan... that's the best thing in the database I've found so far.

I find it funnier than whoever created the zip file also included all the OSX garbage metadata files in __MACOSX as well.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#177

Post by mc32 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:13 PM UTC

vsareto wrote: post #169

mc32 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>’ cashed their dead relative's checks.’ Unless there is some weird allowance (widower/widow inheritance, etc.) wouldn’t this be straight fraud? I know in some countries people don’t report their relatives’ deaths in order to keep receiving their benefits, but obviously that’s illegal too.

>Unless there is some weird allowance (widower/widow inheritance, etc.) wouldn’t this be straight fraud? I'd think if the estate is still open, it'd get rolled into that as income legally.

Though that would be a rather small percentage of disbursements... but aside from those corner cases it would be financial fraud...

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#178

Post by digitaltrees » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #129

eric_b wrote: post #77

So many complaints here. Based on the comments I think there is some misunderstanding about the nuts and bolts of this program. These are loans. They are two year low interest loans. They have to be paid back unless some or all is forgiven. Forgiveness requires documentation on employees retained, wage history, and is capped at $20k/employee maximum. And of course a piece of that comes back to the government in terms…

There's a lot of weirdness lately about people expecting companies to not take the money. The virus wasn't any company's fault. The choice to respond to the virus by shutting down the economy wasn't any company's fault. Previous epidemics in human history have been dealt with by simply accepting a death rate that modern society, via government policy, has chosen to not accept. This was an unprecedented response that…

I agree with this. Any argument about moral hazard is out the window. Any argument about this being like “too big to fail” is misapplied. Banks in 2008 created the crisis and their risky loan portfolios and balance sheets. No company created Covid or state shutdowns. Let’s come together with a spirit of generosity and cooperation. Not petulance and resentment.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#179

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #87

ta17711771 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless some or all is forgiven. RIPE for favoritism, aka, corruption.

I don't think favoritism is a concern. The forgiveness guidance is not, to my knowledge, finalized. But what we've seen so far is pretty cut and dried. It's possible some people could convince their lender to forgive more than they should - but certainly those meeting the forgiveness criteria will get it. Corruption and fraud are certainly possible - though the lenders got paid from the government just for originatin…

Favoritism on the part of banks was real.

Source - applicant for 4 separate, PPP loans that were eventually awarded.

Banks are not stupid. They awarded funds first to their clients that had outstanding loans with them. That meant the banks' own portfolio was not impaired, thanks to influx of PPP

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#180

Post by 1-6 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

greatwave1 wrote: post #8

I'm working on a dashboard to map each of these loans geographically: https://www.quiverquant.com/sources/sbaloans It's a slow process (as I've been respectful of the rate-limit on the reverse geocoding API I'm using), but I finished mapping four states and hope to complete the other 46 by the end of this week.

Great, we can now walk around with pitchforks. I'm kidding These loans have benefited numerous small businesses but we can now keep an eye on those who did not really need it.