Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Searchable PPP Loan Data

pppreport.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 354 posts

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#131

Post by jjeaff »

marcinzm wrote: post #102
llamataboot wrote: post #35

I really think we should not call these loans, as that obscures what they are. Like it or not, the vast majority of these will be forgiven. We could argue that it was a good use a stimulus funds, or a bad use, but it was basically fre money funneled through businesses in a fairly un-transparent way. Of particular reference here - startups that laid off employees and /then/ applied for a PPP loan https://layoffs.fyi/2…

>Of particular reference here - startups that laid off employees and /then/ applied for a PPP loan Aren't these exactly the companies that SHOULD have received PPP? They were clearly struggling and without the money were reducing head count already.

Yes, it is exactly who it is for. The PPP has provisions to get it forgiven only if the companies hire back those layoffs. If you are out of money, you are simply out. It took some time for the PPP to go through if you were able to get it at all.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#132

Post by llamataboot »

marcinzm wrote: post #102
llamataboot wrote: post #35

I really think we should not call these loans, as that obscures what they are. Like it or not, the vast majority of these will be forgiven. We could argue that it was a good use a stimulus funds, or a bad use, but it was basically fre money funneled through businesses in a fairly un-transparent way. Of particular reference here - startups that laid off employees and /then/ applied for a PPP loan https://layoffs.fyi/2…

>Of particular reference here - startups that laid off employees and /then/ applied for a PPP loan Aren't these exactly the companies that SHOULD have received PPP? They were clearly struggling and without the money were reducing head count already.

Yes, of course one can make that argument and say that it was meant to stave off further reductions. I don't even know if this was a particularly bad way to do things, can't make the perfect the enemy of the good here.

I do think that a bunch of this money ended up lining the coffers of businesses that had an "in" with a particular bank or a particularly tax person, just because that's the way these things end up working in practice.

I would have preferred a much more stream-lined European approach combined with much more direct cash to consumers than this roundabout way of doing it, but I don't think it was entirely ill-intentioned. But when you start taking into account executive pay, etc, some of it can start looking pretty shady.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#133

Post by reaperducer »

cj wrote: post #43
tfandango wrote: post #26

Just looking through my home town for businesses I know about... A fair number of them I know carried on with business as usual and had no financial problems (one I used to work for). Seems wrong when there are lots of people in the same town lining up outside the unemployment office every day...

Not sure why this comment is being downvoted. I just searched my local city and noticed that our (for profit) ambulance service received a loan: > DIAZ MEMORIAL AMBULANCE SERVICE INC I definitely don't think they saw the number of ambulance rides go down. And also don't think their profits suffered.

Not sure why this comment is being downvoted

Probably because there's no way he could possibly know what "business as usual" was for any company where he wasn't employed. He has no idea what each company's financial situation is and is merely spouting cynicism.

I definitely don't think they saw the number of ambulance rides go down.

Is this something you monitor? Is there even a way to do that with a private ambulance company?

Considering the number of medical providers, doctors' offices, and hospitals that had business plummet to catastrophic levels, I think you're imagining things.

I work in healthcare, and just off the top of my head can think of several medical clinics and pharmacies that shut down because of pandemic-induced financial difficulties.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#134

Post by vmception »

nullc wrote: post #125

There are a remarkable number of sketchy blockchain companies in this list-- many for larger $5 to $10 million dollar ranges. I wonder how many of them were sitting on millions or tens or even hundreds of millions of deceptively obtained ICO funds at the time they obtained these 'loans'. E.g. I see at least one that raised over 100k BTC in ICO funding just couple years ago.

Although ICO purchasers like to imagine they have investments in "not-securities", proper accounting of token sales from the issuer is revenue, and payroll goes to employees.

So if they had that revenue and also paid payroll to employees in 2019, they would be eligible.

The 2018 ones were screwed though, too far back. They probably exhausted a lot of their runway on marketing and extortionate exchanges.

Blockchain community is unique in that they treat $5-10 million raises as "forever money" for an indefinite time period, when even Series A tech companies would not be expected to last more than 15-18 months.

So there are a lot of misalignments in that sector, which are poorly understood by both the people in the sector, as well as critics outside of the sector.

The issuers themselves often have good legal help and proper accounting, as it is a tricky regulatory environment to begin with, which exacerbates these misalignments with their purchasers and psychological investors.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#135

Post by digitaltrees »

latortuga wrote: post #112
_fullpint wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my original comment was misinformed

There's still PPP money left so I'm not sure what your point about the finite sum is.

There is money left because people were scared shitless after the SBA threatened criminal prosecution for misleading certifications. The problem is that issued a statement redefined the certification after the fact and made it much more strict and than when they were initially released. All of the sudden a bunch of people thought accepting the PPP funds would land them in Jail. Go to the reddit PPP or small business threads and you’ll see tons of people returning funds and expressing fear.

It’s important to note that the SBA issued its announcement after the public outrage of large companies receiving PPP. They have since back tracked and issued a blanket protection from audit for loans under $2M but the damage was done and the $130B hasn’t been touched since.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#138

Post by [deleted] »

eric_b wrote: post #101
cj wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: Removed my comment, the original comment was refuting the $20k cap, but I misinterpreted the parent's comment when first reading it. Sorry!

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/3245-0407-SBA-For... > if a 24-week Covered Period applies, does not exceed 2.5 months’ worth of 2019 compensation for any owneremployee or self-employed individual/general partner, capped at $20,833 per individual; and > if the Borrower has elected an 8-week Covered Period, does not exceed 8 weeks’ worth of 2019 compensation for any owner-employee or self-employed individua…

[deleted]

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#139

Post by hprotagonist »

Without this program, my employer would have had to either lay off a large group of employees or we would've gone under.

As it is, out of a group of about 50, we furloughed 8, who continued without pay, qualified for unemployment benefits, but retained 100% health coverage. Two have returned to work already and we anticipate being more or less normal again in time to meet the loan forgiveness criteria.

It's good to have the database open to see -- and, hey, to double-check that we actually got it.

Re: Searchable PPP Loan Data

#140

Post by reaperducer »

troebr wrote: post #64
eli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all elective surgeries cancelled? I dunno but I’d be careful making assumptions.

I agree with not making assumptions. However I don't think you'd take an ambulance for an elective surgery since it's not an emergency.

Ambulances aren't only used for emergencies. They're used to transport people who can't otherwise get around, or who need medical equipment with them, or who are recovering from surgery, or to move patients from hospital to hospital, and a hundred other uses.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that emergencies are a small portion of what ambulances are used for, but I don't have access to that data.

Post reply on HN