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Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

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Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#161
post #99

International students should be allowed to stay as long as they're full-time, and are accepted into an accredited university with the intention of attending in person. I guess the gray area here is that colleges, many of them being for-profit entities, are facing big drops in enrollment and can essentially sell US citizenship in exchange for tuition payments. Once an online course system is set up, the only cost is…

Probably more accurate to say "can essentially sell US visas in exchange for tuition payments".

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#162
post #99

International students should be allowed to stay as long as they're full-time, and are accepted into an accredited university with the intention of attending in person. I guess the gray area here is that colleges, many of them being for-profit entities, are facing big drops in enrollment and can essentially sell US citizenship in exchange for tuition payments. Once an online course system is set up, the only cost is…

Going from a student with F visa to Green Card is a >10 year adventure with all sorts of problems and complex legal framework. Not to mention, it's practically impossible for some majors, in particular if your major does not apply to OPT STEM extension, it's very hard to get H1B as you have 1 chance to be picked in lottery.

This "universities sell US citizenship" thing is plain misinformation.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#163
To add a bit of color:

* One of my friends went to live with her parents after her OPT expired. She was supposed to enroll in an M.S. in August, but due to COVID, the embassies in her country were shut down. While her university is hybrid, she chose to stay in her home country to take the online-only courses, which are (fortunately) discounted.

* My sister, who is trying to renew her F-1 and has no other status options, is hoping that her school doesn't go online.

* My mom, an immunocompromised professor, is asking the university for an exemption to their in-person requirement. The university said no. The word around is that a financial analyst explained to administration that if people don't have the "campus experience" and therefore stop paying for housing/dining halls, the university would face insolvency within 2 semesters.

All in all, it seems like a way to pressure universities to open. They cannot reasonably close and lose like 5-10% more of their revenue by losing all international students, especially if they haven't figured out online course delivery to recoup some fees from F-1s.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#164

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

It's another measurable, negative impact of the America First philosophy [1]. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families [2][3], so the U.S. is really shooting itself in the foot (again). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy) [2] F500 2010: http://research.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/20... (pdf) [3] F500 2017: https://startupsusa.org/fortune500/

Being an immigrant is not virtuous in and of itself. How many of those 40% 'immigrant families' immigrated here poor and climbed the economic ladder, and how many took stolen wealth from a feudal system in the old country and built a business?

Instead of investing in our domestic population with job training and scholarships, corporations are importing labor from overseas. Those people getting imported have degrees (sometimes of dubious quality) paid for by socialist states, often work for 'staffing agencies' to circumvent benefits and PTO of the real company, have very little job mobility, are most often paid below-market rates.

It's basic economics. More labor means cheaper labor.

Why are Blacks and Hispanics underrepresented in Software development [1]? If you compare the overall employment figures to the overall demographics of the country, they're almost identical, but way, way off for software development. It's because the most vulnerable people in the US don't have access to jobs and education, and corporations have no incentive to train entry level workers when they can just import them.

> so the U.S. is really shooting itself in the foot (again).

In what manner? The US doesn't need every genius walking on planet earth to reside in the US.

EDIT: reference

1: https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#165

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

> (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers.

Wouldn't lock-downs have resulted in the consulates being required to close in much of the world?

And how much reciprocity is there? Are Americans even allowed to travel to most of the world today? There are stories about schools in places like UK having to charter planes to bring students since it's impossible to get there otherwise. Making this all into a narrative about xenophobic americans seems near-sighted.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#166

The missing perspective is that there are visa mills just as there are diploma mills, and that enforcement from both Immigration and Customs and Department of Education is piss-weak. They should have gotten on top of these institutions long ago, but they wouldn't, so here we are. There is Georgia Tech, but there is also the College of Northern Virginia. Here is some background: https://cis.org/Report/Dregs-Higher-Edu…

What you're missing is this is affecting all students in Georgia Tech, Harvard, MIT etc as well.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#167
post #46

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

Vote.

Unfortunately, Democrats don't have a great track record of passing pro skilled immigration bills either. In 2009-2010, when Democrats controlled the house and the senate as well as the presidency, they didn't bring in a single major immigration reform bill [1]. The DREAM act for childhood arrivals didn't pass the senate, and DACA was later passed through executive order in 2012. And right now some Democrats continue to oppose skilled immigration claiming that it is "racist" [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress#M...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/22/trump-wan...

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#168

I'm genuine curious what economic benefits this brings. With the very limited economics I've learned, most students are net spenders in the country, them being here will only pour more money in. Economically, how does stopping them coming in help anyone?

Driving down aggregate demand for higher education can help bring down the cost (how effectively would depend on the elasticity of supply, which I'm not sure about). Fresh grads coming out of college with less debt should lead to higher aggregate spending in other sectors.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#169
post #99

International students should be allowed to stay as long as they're full-time, and are accepted into an accredited university with the intention of attending in person. I guess the gray area here is that colleges, many of them being for-profit entities, are facing big drops in enrollment and can essentially sell US citizenship in exchange for tuition payments. Once an online course system is set up, the only cost is…

There are easier ways to buy a citizenship

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US allows over 1 million immigrants per year. Maybe less the past year, but still extremely high on an immigrant per capita basis. H1B was being abused and needed to be reigned in. There are still plenty of people coming into the country through various means, the US is still extremely generous with immigration. There are plenty of qualified citizens here and in the zero sum game that is hiring national immigrati…

> the US is still extremely generous with immigration. US is the WORST country on earth for immigration. I came to US >10 years ago, still NOWHERE near getting a Green Card. Will probably won't get well into my 30s or 40s. It's practically impossible to get it in the next 5 years. The same time I started undergrad in US, my friend started undergrad in Germany. He was already a German citizen by the time we were worki…

+1 to what you said. 18 years for me and no permanent residency in sight. I'd have been a citizen a few times over in any other country.
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