Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote • Hacker News Board

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#101

Post by TrackerFF » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

stormdennis wrote: post #35

$50,000 a year for a Harvard undergraduate course exclusive of accommodation and food. Sounds like there's a lot of fat that could be trimmed. Sounds immoral in fact.

That's $50k/year to put Harvard on your resume, and the privileges that follow.

Love or hate the top Ivies, they open up doors (or at least fast-track you to the door) that remain closed for a lot of graduates.

If your only goal in life is to maximize your chances at some cookie-cutter prestigious professional job / career, then $200k isn't too bad. The ROI is going to blow most everything else out of the water, as far as education goes.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#102

Post by curiousllama » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

twsttest wrote: post #69

curiousllama wrote: post #43

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

The US allows over 1 million immigrants per year. Maybe less the past year, but still extremely high on an immigrant per capita basis. H1B was being abused and needed to be reigned in. There are still plenty of people coming into the country through various means, the US is still extremely generous with immigration. There are plenty of qualified citizens here and in the zero sum game that is hiring national immigrati…

Could you point out those various means to me? Forgive me if that sounds rhetorical, but I'm serious - it would be life changing for some close friends. I only ask because as far as I'm aware, the only available option right now is marriage.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#103

Post by csa » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

stormdennis wrote: post #35

$50,000 a year for a Harvard undergraduate course exclusive of accommodation and food. Sounds like there's a lot of fat that could be trimmed. Sounds immoral in fact.

> $50,000 a year for a Harvard undergraduate course exclusive of accommodation and food

Please don’t throw this number out without understanding how it really works.

55% of Harvard undergrads get some sort of financial aid. Much of this aid is in the form of grants that cover tuition. One simple example — if a student’s family makes $65k or less a year, tuition is free. Above $65k, there is a sliding scale, and financial aid officers have quite a bit of latitude to work with people with unusual financial situations.

To be fair, I think families making $250k-$350k in high cost of living areas might get the short end of the stick in this system, but even they have some flexibility if they work with the financial aid department.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#104

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

twsttest wrote: post #69

curiousllama wrote: post #43

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

The US allows over 1 million immigrants per year. Maybe less the past year, but still extremely high on an immigrant per capita basis. H1B was being abused and needed to be reigned in. There are still plenty of people coming into the country through various means, the US is still extremely generous with immigration. There are plenty of qualified citizens here and in the zero sum game that is hiring national immigrati…

> There are plenty of qualified citizens here and in the zero sum game that is hiring national immigration policy should put their needs first before anyone else's.

This exact sort of anti-competitive nationalism has been tried before, and over and over again it has been abandoned. It's a failed policy that gives other countries a competitive advantage over your own.

It's better to learn from others' mistakes than to repeat them yourself.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#105

Post by mrkurt » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

screenbeam wrote: post #82

three_seagrass wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's another measurable, negative impact of the America First philosophy [1]. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families [2][3], so the U.S. is really shooting itself in the foot (again). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy) [2] F500 2010: http://research.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/20... (pdf) [3] F500 2017: https://startupsusa.org/fortune500/

America first is a great policy. Our people need jobs and our policies should reflect that.

Immigrants create economic growth though. They come here, spend money, start businesses, and generate more demand for the things that create jobs.

In fact, preventing immigration reduces jobs. Companies will happily offshore any position they can.

Jobs don't just exist in a vacuum. They're the result of a relatively complex economy, but growth generally creates jobs. So we should grow.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#106

Post by esoterica » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51

dopamean wrote: post #32

Seems like bs to me. If you're on the other side of the planet you're expected to be online at 3am for lectures and exams? Ridiculous.

Students do all sorts of things to get a degree. Lots of folks in the working world, work at 3AM. Its not 'ridiculous', just onerous.

Making people do onerous things without good cause IS ridiculous.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#107

Post by Falling3 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

screenbeam wrote: post #82

three_seagrass wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's another measurable, negative impact of the America First philosophy [1]. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families [2][3], so the U.S. is really shooting itself in the foot (again). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy) [2] F500 2010: http://research.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/20... (pdf) [3] F500 2017: https://startupsusa.org/fortune500/

America first is a great policy. Our people need jobs and our policies should reflect that.

It's a false dichotomy rooted in isolationism and justified by xenophobia. It takes care of Americans in name only.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#108

Post by deegles » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

three_seagrass wrote: post #57

curiousllama wrote: post #43

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

It's another measurable, negative impact of the America First philosophy [1]. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies are founded by immigrant families [2][3], so the U.S. is really shooting itself in the foot (again). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy) [2] F500 2010: http://research.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/20... (pdf) [3] F500 2017: https://startupsusa.org/fortune500/

It really should be called "America Alone."

A real America-first policy would encourage and fight for high skill immigration, since that builds the economy of the US and depletes talent from other countries.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#109

Post by cr1895 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

twsttest wrote: post #69

curiousllama wrote: post #43

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

The US allows over 1 million immigrants per year. Maybe less the past year, but still extremely high on an immigrant per capita basis. H1B was being abused and needed to be reigned in. There are still plenty of people coming into the country through various means, the US is still extremely generous with immigration. There are plenty of qualified citizens here and in the zero sum game that is hiring national immigrati…

>the US is still extremely generous with immigration.

Everything I read about it convinces me it's a byzantine and capricious process, and largely down to chance.

My process of gaining permanent residence in the Netherlands is a cakewalk by comparison. University MSc, then free access to the job market for a year, then after some years of employment and passing a relatively simple integration exam, I have long-term European residence. At no point was this up to the arbitrary whims of some immigration officer or a far-fetched lottery chance.

To me the idea that immigration is zero sum is repugnant and wrong.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#110

Post by snackematician » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

This is yet another attack against immigrant students as noted in sibling comments.

But it is also an attempt to force universities to open in the Fall despite the dangers of doing so. Many universities depend on the tuition from foreign students. The timing shows this (right after Harvard announced plans to go online), as well as Trump's tweets that schools must open in Fall.