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Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

edition.cnn.com

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Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#41

Post by dx87 »

eloisius wrote: post #2

I really hope universities can find a loophole around this. Three days of in-class lecture per semester, but allow for three unexcused absences for any reason.

The college I go to uses a loophole to allow military veterans to get the full monetary benefits of attending an in person class, while doing everything online. They don't have attendance requirements, all the material taught in class has to be available online, and no exercises or in class assignments count towards your final grade. That way the school can say you enrolled in an in-person class, and the student gets to decide whether or not they want to show up. Admittedly, the in class instruction normally isn't very good, and maybe 5-10 people still come in after the first few weeks.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#42

Post by bdcravens »

Afton wrote: post #17
hpoe wrote: post #5

I know this will be very unpleasant and will entail a lot of hardship for a lot of people but I can't help but wonder if in the long term this will help to start reversing the "brain drain" problem that many developing nations are struggling with. They'll still have access to their classes and be able to acquire the requisite skills, but now they'll be building something in their home country not stuck in a middle ti…

I know several developers from developing nations that have strong ties to their countries of origin, and engage heavily in various "good works" there. They have massively more resources to do so due to their salaries in the US than they would if they were stuck in their countries of origin.

Is the value of their charity greater than the cost of the country losing their talent? The "teach a man to fish" proverb comes to mind.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#43

Post by curiousllama »

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US.

(1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (already a 1 in 3 shot), H1B transfers, and others in the lurch. (3) RFEs (a first step to visa denials) have been on a steep rise.

As a result, not only are we kicking people out, but international applications to US schools have absolutely collapsed; fewer people are even trying. The US is actively abandoning its goal of being the land of opportunity, and it makes me sad.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#44

Post by ISL »

I'm expecting universities to begin to encourage international students to sign up for in-person lab classes to bypass this rule.

Are any HN'ers aware of policies emerging to this effect? I expect there to be some back-and-forth between educational institutions and the government on this one.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#45

Post by codegeek »

mc32 wrote: post #4

Key quote: >” Visa requirements for students have always been strict and coming to the US to take online-only courses has been prohibited.” So it’s a reinforcement of policy rather than change although some institutions would like to see accommodation for this kind of circumstance —which is understandable if students came here with the intent to attend in person, but it’s worth noting the the visa requirements have n…

Technically it may be a reenforcement but Corona Virus has changed quite a few things and it is also a practical fact that a lot of people are stranded and cannot travel to their home countries right now that easily. So you cannot just "enforce" the law and it needs a more balanced approach by the administration. If they don't act according to the current situation, it is not a good thing regardless of what the law is. Immigration is very discretionary when it comes to these types of situations. They can always say "Hey there is this law but considering where we are with Corona, we will give you some flexibility".

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#46

Post by ISL »

curiousllama wrote: post #43

This is just another step in a broad-based program to make sure as few highly qualified people as possible can come to learn and work in the US. (1) F1 visas have been effectively banned in much of the world since COVID started - the required interviews could only be done in now-closed centers. (2) H1B, L1, H4, and J1 visas have been suspended until the end of the year, leaving OPT transfers, H1B lottery winners (alr…

Vote.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#47

Post by thehappypm »

dopamean wrote: post #32

Seems like bs to me. If you're on the other side of the planet you're expected to be online at 3am for lectures and exams? Ridiculous.

You’ve clearly never taken an online class.

Lectures are recorded, exams are usually flexible open windows

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#49

Post by JoeAltmaier »

thehappypm wrote: post #47
dopamean wrote: post #32

Seems like bs to me. If you're on the other side of the planet you're expected to be online at 3am for lectures and exams? Ridiculous.

You’ve clearly never taken an online class. Lectures are recorded, exams are usually flexible open windows

My wife's online classes are real-time. She logs in at lecture time, asks questions with the other students. Same with section.

We're talking University experience here, which is all about engagement.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#50

Post by levosmetalo »

hpoe wrote: post #5

I know this will be very unpleasant and will entail a lot of hardship for a lot of people but I can't help but wonder if in the long term this will help to start reversing the "brain drain" problem that many developing nations are struggling with. They'll still have access to their classes and be able to acquire the requisite skills, but now they'll be building something in their home country not stuck in a middle ti…

Many would argue that the main benefit of studying in the US for an average foreign student is the possibility to live in the US, get some good connection in the US that could help him later and an opportunity to get a job in the US.

If the study is 100% remote, none of these benefits applies anymore, and since the quality of studies itself is comparable to many European or Asian universities, it is hard to justify the cost of US university scholarship.

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