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Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

edition.cnn.com

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Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#31

Post by the_svd_doctor »

LockAndLol wrote: post #20

Well it makes sense... If you done actually have to be in the country to take the courses, then your stay is optional. For students that cannot go back due to travel restrictions or that have other obligations in the country, it would make sense to let them stay. Of course if they come from countries that do not possess the facilities necessary to access online content, that would put some students in quite a pickle.…

It's because there is no "case by case" decision or any nuance. There is no "treated in a special manner". If you can't follow your classes in person, you have to leave. If you don't, you probably won't be deported per so, but in the future, any benefits (like employment) can/will be denied.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#33

Post by humanistbot »

LockAndLol wrote: post #20

Well it makes sense... If you done actually have to be in the country to take the courses, then your stay is optional. For students that cannot go back due to travel restrictions or that have other obligations in the country, it would make sense to let them stay. Of course if they come from countries that do not possess the facilities necessary to access online content, that would put some students in quite a pickle.…

> For students that cannot go back due to travel restrictions or that have other obligations in the country, it would make sense to let them stay.

These students will not be allowed to stay.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#34

Post by ls612 »

zorked wrote: post #19
mvanga wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this a common sentiment here. As someone who left his country to study abroad, I find it very odd. An individual looks at his or her options, decides that pursuing education in a foreign country will result in a better future for them and their family. And somehow restricting their opportunity and their freedom to do so is a good thing? Certainly not for the individual in question. Personally, I think the way…

> I think the way to prevent brain drain is not to impose restrictions on individual liberty but to compete better on the education/career market. Countries that are at the source of brain drains would typically like to do that but can't, just like they have problems solving other problems. $arbitrary country does not have the major tech companies to support tech-company level salaries and there is a chicken-and-egg…

>If this anti-immigration trend is held over a sufficiently long time I think rich countries will start realizing what a magnificent deal they had.

I suspect as soon as the sentiment changes that people will rush to come here again. The US has for better or worse a fairly unique culture and those who like that will still want to immigrate in 5 or 10 years.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#36

Post by Forgeties79 »

mc32 wrote: post #4

Key quote: >” Visa requirements for students have always been strict and coming to the US to take online-only courses has been prohibited.” So it’s a reinforcement of policy rather than change although some institutions would like to see accommodation for this kind of circumstance —which is understandable if students came here with the intent to attend in person, but it’s worth noting the the visa requirements have n…

“It’s the law” is a terrible rationale though. Our values should inform our laws and their interpretation, not the other way around.

There is a clear externality forcing this situation and it is clearly more detrimental to force them out of the country than to just make special accommodations/provisions. Pass a bill if that makes it more palatable and set it to have a termination date with the ability to “re-up” if this situation continues. But shrugging and going “them’s the rules” when it suits us and being flexible elsewhere (freelancers getting unemployment benefits, for instance) seems arbitrary and, frankly, capricious.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#37

Post by PeterisP »

Loughla wrote: post #8
mc32 wrote: post #4

Key quote: >” Visa requirements for students have always been strict and coming to the US to take online-only courses has been prohibited.” So it’s a reinforcement of policy rather than change although some institutions would like to see accommodation for this kind of circumstance —which is understandable if students came here with the intent to attend in person, but it’s worth noting the the visa requirements have n…

Foreign students can only take 1 online class at our institution due to current policy. When we scrambled to move all online during the stay-home orders, one question we didn't have answered was whether or not those students could even stay if we went entirely online. The policy didn't change at all, it's super restrictive. What institutions I'm affiliated with are asking is for temporary flexibility during COVID-19.…

It's not like any education representative can change immigration policy or grant some exceptions, it's not up to them.

If taking online classes means that the students visas become invalid, or if their current visa restrictions mean that it's prohibited for them to be in an online-only program, then that's exactly what it means, and it's wrong to blame schools or education department about it, it's not about education but about immigration policy - the domain of Department of State, Congress, etc.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#38

Post by ralmidani »

Instructors want to reduce their risk of exposure, which is understandable. But serving that interest also means a lot of international students will lose their visas. Would limiting seats in class to just international students be a good way to reconcile both parties' interests?

Edit: this would raise issues of fairness and equal treatment (a lot of students, especially those not accustomed to remote learning, would feel cheated). There probably is no perfect solution.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#39

Post by whalesalad »

stormdennis wrote: post #35

$50,000 a year for a Harvard undergraduate course exclusive of accommodation and food. Sounds like there's a lot of fat that could be trimmed. Sounds immoral in fact.

It's not immoral, it's business. Harvard has presented a product and you are free to take it or leave it. What is unfortuntate though is that we've been conditioned as a society to believe that a higher education is the most valuable thing you could ever earn.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#40

Post by HarryHirsch »

The missing perspective is that there are visa mills just as there are diploma mills, and that enforcement from both Immigration and Customs and Department of Education is piss-weak. They should have gotten on top of these institutions long ago, but they wouldn't, so here we are.

There is Georgia Tech, but there is also the College of Northern Virginia. Here is some background: https://cis.org/Report/Dregs-Higher-Education-Damage-Our-Imm...

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