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Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

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Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#21

Post by swamy_g »

hpoe wrote: post #5

I know this will be very unpleasant and will entail a lot of hardship for a lot of people but I can't help but wonder if in the long term this will help to start reversing the "brain drain" problem that many developing nations are struggling with. They'll still have access to their classes and be able to acquire the requisite skills, but now they'll be building something in their home country not stuck in a middle ti…

People aren't coming here for learning (not the first priority), rather a college education is the gateway to a high paying job in the US and it's lifestyle.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#22

Post by roywiggins »

mc32 wrote: post #4

Key quote: >” Visa requirements for students have always been strict and coming to the US to take online-only courses has been prohibited.” So it’s a reinforcement of policy rather than change although some institutions would like to see accommodation for this kind of circumstance —which is understandable if students came here with the intent to attend in person, but it’s worth noting the the visa requirements have n…

That requirement was waived this spring. They're unwaiving it.[0]

Rigid enforcement of rules designed for a world that doesn't exist anymore, and won't for a while, is a deliberate choice and not one that we have to make.

The pandemic is an ongoing rolling emergency. Making life worse for people for no good reason may be the default, but that doesn't mean that the people who can waive the rule shouldn't be held responsible when they decide not to. Inaction and action are nearly indistinguishable from the side of the people being affected.

[0] See this guidance from March: "Given the extraordinary nature of the COVID-19 emergency, SEVP will allow F-1 and/or M-1 students to temporarily count online classes towards a full course of study in excess of the limits... This temporary provision is only in effect for the duration of the emergency" Absolutely nothing substantive has changed since then, but ICE has apparently changed its mind and- implausibly- decided the emergency is over. It's absurd.

https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2...

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#23

Post by verganileonardo »

arrayjumper wrote: post #18

As someone who studied in the US on an F1 visa, I can tell you that this rule has always been in place. The F1 visa was always extremely restrictive whether it was regarding minimum number of in person credits or regarding allowing students to work part time. It seems especially cruel that they'd choose to enforce the rule at a time like this.

I'm in the same position and I agree.

The rule makes sense and is there to prevent an exploit on using student visas to move to the US.

However, enforcing it during a pandemic is cruel and really reinforces how Trump and his administration are aggressive towards international people - even if we are coming to elite schools and would bring value to the US economy.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#24

Post by humanistbot »

All of those students who came to the US to try to get an education will remember this for the rest of their lives. When all of those future scientists, business leaders, journalists, politicians, artists, and so on think about the US, they will think back to how the US treated them at a time of global crisis.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#25

Post by Panini_Jones »

xixixao wrote: post #11

What this policy completely misses is that some courses are real-time online, not recorded, and that people live in different timezones across the globe. This is extremely personally harmful to people affected.

Moreover, some classes use online services like GDocs. GDocs aren't accessible from certain countries.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#26

Post by troydavis »

achow wrote: post #12
hpoe wrote: post #5

I know this will be very unpleasant and will entail a lot of hardship for a lot of people but I can't help but wonder if in the long term this will help to start reversing the "brain drain" problem that many developing nations are struggling with. They'll still have access to their classes and be able to acquire the requisite skills, but now they'll be building something in their home country not stuck in a middle ti…

The effect would be these students would not opt for these courses. For majority of these students the main attraction is employment in USA, for a small subset experiencing American culture. In absence of both of these there is no reason for students to take online courses from American Universities.

> The effect would be these students would not opt for these courses. For majority of these students the main attraction is employment in USA, for a small subset experiencing American culture. In absence of both of these there is no reason for students to take online courses from American Universities.

Keep in mind that this is expected for 1 of at least 4 years of undergraduate, or 1 of 2-5 years of graduate, education. Someone's still going to have plenty of time living in the US and interacting with potential future US colleagues.

(I'm accepting at face value your assertion that signalling provided by a degree from a US institution has ~no value. I don't think that's the case, but my comment above makes that question close to moot.)

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#27

Post by gcbw3 »

roywiggins wrote: post #22
mc32 wrote: post #4

Key quote: >” Visa requirements for students have always been strict and coming to the US to take online-only courses has been prohibited.” So it’s a reinforcement of policy rather than change although some institutions would like to see accommodation for this kind of circumstance —which is understandable if students came here with the intent to attend in person, but it’s worth noting the the visa requirements have n…

That requirement was waived this spring. They're unwaiving it.[0] Rigid enforcement of rules designed for a world that doesn't exist anymore, and won't for a while, is a deliberate choice and not one that we have to make. The pandemic is an ongoing rolling emergency. Making life worse for people for no good reason may be the default, but that doesn't mean that the people who can waive the rule shouldn't be held respo…

The university i'm associated with, because of the pandemic, not only all the international students are having online classes, but the international grad students teaching the classes are giving them online too.

And all those grad students on a teaching scholarship were told to remain in the US because their scholarship is tied to being residents of the State for some tax reason or another for the institution.

fun times.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#29

Post by the_svd_doctor »

arrayjumper wrote: post #18

As someone who studied in the US on an F1 visa, I can tell you that this rule has always been in place. The F1 visa was always extremely restrictive whether it was regarding minimum number of in person credits or regarding allowing students to work part time. It seems especially cruel that they'd choose to enforce the rule at a time like this.

Exactly. F-1 is already very very restrictive. Enforcing this rule is bad and doesn't take any account any sort of local differences.

What if the state close all college campuses ? Sorry, bye bye, go home.

Re: Int. students may need to leave US if classes are 100% Remote

#30

Post by dangoor »

In an ideal world, this is where the legislature steps in and passes a law that allows these students to stay for the 2020-21 school year, rather than assuming the executive branch just selectively continues non-enforcement of this requirement.

If you're a US citizen, you can contact your representative/senators offices and ask them to deal with this.

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