Live data from Hacker News

Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

psycnet.apa.org

151–160 of 195 posts

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#151
post #68
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can start with supporting charter schools. They're public schools that are allowed to push out of typical restrictions and teach children in new ways. Overall, they're an excellent investment and the data shows that they work. They face many strong and sad political challenges. There's a recent book called Charter Schools and their Enemies that is a good read about the story of them.

This is just not an adequate summary of the decidedly mixed record of charter schools. My kid, now 14, goes to a Los Angeles USD public school that offers specialized magnet programs for gifted and, separately, highly gifted, kids. The highly gifted program is quite accelerated and could accommodate some of the special needs you see evidence of in the comments here. (They are with their peers, not put into classes wi…

My comment by itself certainly isn't an adequate summary. That's why I recommended a whole book.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the rationale for keeping everyone together, other than timetabling issues? That's exactly the issue, together with too many children per teacher. Unless you can adequately replace a teacher with digital learning solutions (still very sparse; even worse in non-english speaking countries), any increase in "own pace" would result in an increase of teacher-student time.

Or just fund public schools at the level that private schools do and have reasonable class sizes.

Or just normalize school funding at a national level and get rid of the racist classism our predecessors built into law. Good schools should stand out for their teachers not how much tax the residents pay.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything was easy until it wasn't Similar experience for me (apart from the social distancing - never an issue for me) - being told how clever I was by parents, relatives, teachers, class-mates etc from ages 5 or 6 up to early-/mid-teens. It soaks into you and you end up becoming a bit arrogant about things. For me I had a rude-awakening during my late teens when we did our first "real" exams and I assumed that w…

Same thing regarding kids. I like to split it and attribute their success to effort and a bit of inherent awesomeness. I think it's good to build self-worth while also sending the message that you have to make the effort to get good results. Failures are simply due to not putting in enough practice right?

Hmmm I like the idea of "awesomeness" - really positive thing to say, but also whimsical and flimsy enough to not really carry any actual concrete meaning with regards to academic skills etc. Nice.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#154
From the paper:

  Acceleration Composite = 1 × AP Courses +
                           1 × College Courses +
                           4 × Grades Skipped
"The average age of high school graduation was for Cohort 1: M = 17.8 years (SD = 0.62); for Cohort 2: M = 17.7 years (SD = 0.76); and for Cohort 3: M = 17.2 years (SD = 1.02)"

According to figure 2 (pg 5), only 52 of 1497 (= 3.5%) students graduated from high school at an age ≤ 16. So it seems like this study is measuring very modest levels of acceleration, most of which probably comes from AP courses. I don't think this study tells us much about 20 year-olds with PhDs, or what would happen if we put an 8-year-old in a high school literature class, or if we separated everyone into different tracks an a young age, or a lot of the other things people are discussing in this thread.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#155
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced long term psychological effects from lack of proper education pacing. From the very beginning, I entered kindergarten as the only one in my class able to read. The teacher, doing her best, sent me off to read by myself in the corner as she taught the rest of the class. In the years where your brain is programmed to adapt itself to the environment it expects for the rest of life, I only ever had to do th…

I seem to have a bit of a unique story: Early in elementary school, I was identified as a good candidate for the accelerated program. However, my parents didn't just say yes or no, they gave me the choice. I remember actually saying something along the lines of, if they had asked me any time earlier, I'd've gone for it, but I didn't want to leave the friends I'd made that year. This set the tone for a large chunk of…

My story is similar to yours. We didn't have an accelerated program, per se, but my parents offered me a choice to skip a grade mid-elementary school. I said I wanted to stay with my friends. (Though I didn't have any close friends, so maybe I just didn't want to stand out but couldn't articulate that yet.)

Eventually, I began to do math at an accelerated pace, and it was wonderful to be with a group of older students closer to my ability level then.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#156
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced long term psychological effects from lack of proper education pacing. From the very beginning, I entered kindergarten as the only one in my class able to read. The teacher, doing her best, sent me off to read by myself in the corner as she taught the rest of the class. In the years where your brain is programmed to adapt itself to the environment it expects for the rest of life, I only ever had to do th…

The answer is: competitions. I school, I was always busy with competitions in Math, Chemistry, Physics, and Informatics, so I had no time to be bored.

How ubiquitous are those? My school had science fair but none of the others (and I think science fair has since been cut)

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#157

There is no argument against academic acceleration beyond that it increases inequality of achievement. If the school system was about education more than childcare acceleration would be the norm for bright children and we’d have 14 year olds starting their Bachelor’s level studies in every school and 20 year olds who already had doctorates in every city of any size. Instead we waste their time, to their detriment and…

I experienced long term psychological effects from lack of proper education pacing. From the very beginning, I entered kindergarten as the only one in my class able to read. The teacher, doing her best, sent me off to read by myself in the corner as she taught the rest of the class. In the years where your brain is programmed to adapt itself to the environment it expects for the rest of life, I only ever had to do th…

It is sad to hear of the isolation of gifted kids. It seems to be the rule, not the exception.

I was fortunate, my elementary was a magnet that did all kinds of experimental learning. I had to bus all the way across town (small town) to go there, but for my parents it was worth it.

Some experiments were elementary went to 6th grade, we learned french, and 2nd and 3rd grade were combined for awhile montessori style. However, even at the magnet, in 5th grade three of us were far enough ahead that they gave us an algebra book (9th grade) and had us self teach. But at least there were 3 of us, and Im still friends with them 40 years later.

For high school I went to a university affiliated magnet high school which ran 5 years starting at 7th and was created to serve the children of professors at the university. I didnt want to attend but my parents essentially coerced me.

I was reasonably challenged the whole time and it was a safe place to be a nerd. The school let you start taking community college and university classes when you were ready. The classes werent designated as AP classes, but they still prepared students for the AP. My sophomore high school chemistry textbook ended up being my university chemistry textbook.

I would say the school worked. Around half the class of 40 are professors. My kids are not really gifted so I wont push them in that direction, but where I live now has a very good set of magnet middle/high schools.

I agree that the pacing is slow in public schools. Kids probably only get 2-3 hours of actual learning each day. Our kids go to a spanish immersion private school that also teaches chinese. They typically are a year ahead of public school. For example my first grader started multiplication and fractions by the end of the year. However with us all being home due to covid we have moved him even faster than the accelerated curriculum and are pretty much done with the second grade curriculum this summer. I would not even classify him as gifted so more kids can probably go faster than the typical public school curriculum.

Ultimately in bigger cities the options exist via private schools, charter schools, and magnet schools but a lot depends on the parents' motivation and knowledge. I think for all the bad rap public schools get, they do a decent job of teaching the bulk of kids.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#158
post #28

I wonder if they lack good ways of measuring this. I skipped a few grades and started university at 15. It took years to catch up socially and in many ways I never did. I wouldn't recommend it. In retrospect, I'd say a better thing to do with a smart kid is to convince them that they should work on things they're not as good at. Nobody's good at everything. However, that would have required individual attention of a…

I wonder if this could be solved by grouping you with other academically advanced children of the same age. I agree it doesn’t seem right to put children in social environments with adults and expect them to succeed socially.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#159
post #28

I wonder if they lack good ways of measuring this. I skipped a few grades and started university at 15. It took years to catch up socially and in many ways I never did. I wouldn't recommend it. In retrospect, I'd say a better thing to do with a smart kid is to convince them that they should work on things they're not as good at. Nobody's good at everything. However, that would have required individual attention of a…

>In retrospect, I'd say a better thing to do with a smart kid is to convince them that they should work on things they're not as good at. Nobody's good at everything. However, that would have required individual attention of a sort that wasn't available back then. Yes and no. On the one hand, there is a lot to be said for ensuring a balance in learning, making sure that everyone has basic competence in a number of th…

Yeah, after about 40 sounds right ;)

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#160
I was a "mentally gifted minor" as of the 5th grade in California. This seemed mainly to be about the schools receiving additional funding for each such student.

The high school I attended let us vote on how the funds were spent, and we voted to purchase musical instruments (which anyone in the school could use). We also hired a Mandarin tutor for one quarter, which was decades ahead. I don't remember any Mandarin except for one phrase, which translated to 'I am reading a book.'

Post reply on HN