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U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#81

Post by cthalupa »

ur-whale wrote: post #56
rorykoehler wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would be the law

> Because it would be the law What remains to be seen is if said law would be "legal" (as in: not in direct conflict with the constitution).

I'm not sure that a foreign company has any rights under the constitution to begin with. It's contentious whether or not it grants rights to a foreign citizen while they are outside of the US's borders, so claiming that ByteDance would have their constitutional rights violated by such a ban would be even more so.

However, if this were to happen, it would almost certainly be under national security law, which has pretty far reaching powers for this sort of thing. Knowing how much the app spies on you, and knowing that they are ultimately under control by the Chinese government, there's a very strong case to be made.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#82

Post by apexalpha »

lightgreen wrote: post #31
sschueller wrote: post #23

So it is not ok for a foreign app the spy on its user but it's perfectly ok for Google and co to do so? Anyone remember what Uber did with their app and tracking users? What about the king of tracking, facebook?

There’s a quite a large difference between Google spying and China spying. When Google “spies”, users get more relevant ads. When China spies, people get into “Vocational Education and Training Centers” and other bad things happen. Chinese spying is like 10000 times worse in practice. But in theory, when dealing in absolutes, there is no difference, both are spies.

Let's be honest: Google has been known to be in bed with the NSA and other agencies as well. It's very disingenuous to pretend Google only serves you ads but has no relations to the US national intelligence community but Chinese apps do.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#84

Post by lightgreen »

HenryBemis wrote: post #71
lightgreen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That major difference you mentioned means that the leak will be much more likely in the US, company will try to battle the order in court, the government will think twice before issuing a request to a company, and the net result is spyings are several orders of magnitude less often in western countries (I have no data to back up that statement).

> the government will think twice before issuing a request to a company No, they will definitely not think. Govs/politicians/people in places of power are so arrogant that they will continue the BAU. They will pass another stricter "patriot act/snooper charter", they will issue a tougher gag order, and they will continue as they already do. They will increse the penalties for violators, but they will not stop. The "b…

> definitely

You are dealing in absolutes. Let me put is way. In dictatorship non-free spy hungry US the cost of making a request to a private company for a government official is much much higher than the same request in for example China.

Because of checks and balances and more or less working elections and free press and now the free internet.

When request is harder to make, the government makes fewer requests, that’s it.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#85

Post by ketzu »

jeswin wrote: post #52
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #24

It is absolutely foolish for any country other than China to allow TikTok within their borders. You might fairly ask whether or not it is equally foolish for non-US countries to use US services. I think that is also a reasonable question, and deserves reflection.

> You might fairly ask whether or not it is equally foolish for non-US countries to use US services. I think that is also a reasonable question, and deserves reflection. It's a fair sentiment (and held by others as well on this thread), but IMHO there's no equivalence. In democracies, violence against their own people (or others) will invite opposition from their citizens - while in China people won't even know what'…

> What's a comparable loss due to US snooping?

The list of interventions in foreign countries by the US is very very long ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_U... ), although not all of them are unwelcome or unwarranted. So is the list of people killed by the US. According to their own words "We Kill People Based on Metadata". (e.g., https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-... )

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#86

Post by cthalupa »

Barrin92 wrote: post #27
actuator wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just classic whataboutism. You should be careful of all of these companies as well. But you can't really equate the rule of law in both the countries in good faith. I really doubt criticism of Covid-19 handling lands you in jail in US. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/worl...

>But you can't really equate the rule of law in both the countries in good faith Yes you can't because Americans aren't subject to Chinese law. What do you think is going to happen, the CCP send their best assassin over to get you because they didn't like your cat video? You've got more to fear from the FBI trying to get into your iphone if they suspect you of a crime than a foreign government that doesn't have any j…

>Yes you can't because Americans aren't subject to Chinese law.

China certainly disagrees with you. Just look at the new Hong Kong NSL - it claims jurisdiction over every person on earth for offenses defined to vaguely as to be meaningless. This obviously has horrific effects for the people in Hong Kong - protesters are already being threatened as being national security threats for having a protest where they did nothing but stand still and hold up white paper - but also chilling effects for anyone who might ever visit Hong Kong, the PRC, or any country friendly with or afraid of the PRC, especially if they have an extradition treaty.

The law had been used to ban pro-democracy books and arrest democracy activists in Hong Kong within a week of its passing. Piss off the PRC enough and go on a trip to Thailand, and you might end up in a Chinese prison for the rest of your life, because article 38 covers any action by any person, no matter where they are and wether or not it was legal where they were. It was illegal in Hong Kong, so you're fair game if you're ever within their legal net.

While the FBI has more power over me day to day, I am not afraid of them arresting me for being a proponent of free speech or democracy. If I was someone who traveled more frequently in those previously mentioned countries, I certainly would be.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#87

Post by lightgreen »

apexalpha wrote: post #82
lightgreen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a quite a large difference between Google spying and China spying. When Google “spies”, users get more relevant ads. When China spies, people get into “Vocational Education and Training Centers” and other bad things happen. Chinese spying is like 10000 times worse in practice. But in theory, when dealing in absolutes, there is no difference, both are spies.

Let's be honest: Google has been known to be in bed with the NSA and other agencies as well. It's very disingenuous to pretend Google only serves you ads but has no relations to the US national intelligence community but Chinese apps do.

If you have some references to confirm your theory about Google and NSA, please share a link.

Otherwise it is just ZOG theory.

Also, the statement about “being in bed” is very vague and non informative.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#89

Post by chenzhekl »

If you view digital contents as industrial goods, the internet today which allows apps, services to flow around the world without much burden (e.g. tariff, import control) is already a miracle. It's no surprise of countries to start building "customs" on the internet and that may become a trend considering the deglobalization happening these years.

Re: U.S. looking at banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok

#90

Post by dannyr »

actuator wrote: post #14
codezero wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just ask the app stores to ban them. The US couldn’t do anything more sophisticated right now, and that would solve most of their concerns.

Has there been any precedence of US banning an app/website without some clear violation of law?

Apple banned Facebook's Onavo VPN app while it wasn't banned on the Android Play Store.
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