Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#161

Post by itgoon » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 4:47 AM UTC

kanox wrote: post #52

itgoon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competency tests have helped me get in the door. That said, they seem to work best when they're part of an overall interview process. I think it's a mistake to look at only the highest scores and interview those people, they should only weed out the bottom scores and follow a more typical (do they fit? can they learn it?) process for the rest.

> Competency tests have helped me get in the door. How so? The door was already open if the company decided to give you a test. My impression is that coding tests either offer neutral or negative feedback during an interview. It's not like a candidate can manipulate linked lists in a way that shows particular brilliance.

The test comes before the interview, after speaking to a recruiter.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#162

Post by dean177 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 8:32 AM UTC

kanox wrote: post #3

> What’s the best way to test if someone can do a particular job well? Get them to carry out tasks that are part of the job. See if they can do what they say they can do. It’s much harder for someone to lie and mislead an interviewer during actual work than during an interview. Using competency tests for a blinded interview process is also possible—interviewers could look at depersonalized test results to make unbias…

> All these "competency tests" are good for is catching blatant lying. Is this a serious problem?

It absolutely is, there are plenty of companies who have no staff capable of verifying a candidates technical abilities

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#163

Post by putsjoe » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

xelxebar wrote: post #159

This hits home too hard. My job search is going so poorly, that I have started to doubt my technical value at all. Confusingly, personal one-on-one interactions with companies or hiring agencies almost invariably result in positive feedback and comments, "you are exetremely hirable," "you have a strong technical background," etc. However, none of these interactions has gone anywhere. Either they "move forward with so…

Hang in there. I have a friend who's in a similar position, she's interviewed and been ghosted a few times and it has really gotten her down. It can take time but eventually a company will come to their senses and realise your value.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#164

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 10:56 AM UTC

dahart wrote: post #121

bluGill wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I work hr won't let us ask any question that isn't scientificly proven to make a difference. It makes it hard to ask technical questions.

Oh that's fascinating! Can you talk about what questions are scientifically proven to make a difference, and/or the methodology of proving it? I've read bits and pieces here and there, but not seriously followed such research. I imagine that style, specific words, amount of follow-up, and even mood in the room can play important factors here in the "success rates" of certain interview questions...?

I just ask the prepared questions... That is a good question but I force myself to concentrate on other interesting questions.

They have said that if we want a new question added to the list we need a good link controlled experiment : ask a random sample of candidates, don't use the answer, and then evaluate after 6 months if there is a difference between the two groups performance on the job.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#165

Post by lasereyes136 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 12:45 PM UTC

Finding good people to work with is hard. Nothing you do will find 100% of the good people (finding 50% of them is extremely good) and filter out 100% of the bad people. Nothing you do will be effective for everyone. Trying to develop a hiring strategy based on what you want interviews or hiring processes to be like will be biased.

Accept that you will make mistakes. Accept that many of the good ones will get away or be undiscovered. Accept that you will make hiring mistakes and have to fix those.

If you are interviewing, do you really want to spend a few years of your life at a place that does the bare minimum to vet you? They do that for everyone and guess what kind of coworkers you are going to get. Sure taking PTO and spending a day in an interview process is a lot of time. What is the alternative? Not really being vetted and working with horrible people.

Finding the person or the right company to work with it hard. Take the time to be comfortable that it can work for both sides.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#166

Post by blaser-waffle » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #151

simonw wrote: post #48

If you want a really big competitive advantage, figure out how to hire great people who don't interview well.

Or who don't interview at all. [0] I've seen great devs intern twice at the same company while in college and spend several years there as full time right after graduating, only jumping ships when a friend at an other company specifically reached out. They are essentially invisible to any recruiters. [0] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/

Internships and direct, intra-personal headhunting isn't new, and is absolutely a part of HR & hiring.

But those interns were interviewed, no doubt.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#167

Post by blaser-waffle » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #148

edoceo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is left that is willing to spend hours doing take home tests? I've used this process to help place entry level all the way to C-Level -- maybe I've not provided enough details (it's more than just a simple test) or maybe you're over-simplifying the process? It's not a perfect process (hiring in general is still looking for that) and clearly it's not the right process for you. I'm happy you found a job you enjoy…

Two non developer anecdotes from what I’ve heard or seen Solutions Architect - answer the soft skill questions aka “tell me about a time when..” and they had to do a writing sample either a sales blog post or an SOW. Project Manager - same soft skill questions, talk about processes, previous challenges and outcomes. Maybe do a simplified project plan. Are those the types of take home tasks you are referring to for no…

I've done sales engineering and solutions architecture for years and never once written a sales blog post. I'm not sure how I'd respond to that if I was asked to do it.

SOW also seems tricky... I'm usually putting out 27+ SOWs, and there is a lot of "standard language" cut-n-paste.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#168

Post by blaser-waffle » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #90

simonw wrote: post #48

If you want a really big competitive advantage, figure out how to hire great people who don't interview well.

Usually the ones who do terrible in the interview but the resume is solid. That person knows how to do their job but can't sell themselves. When they end up finding work they rely on good work. The opposite is a great interviewer. They will have an even better resume. Rarely are the best workers but can somehow stage what little they do into looking like a top performer. Will likely move on when the going gets tough.

Not sure why this is downvoted, these are not universally true, but I've definitely seen what the parent describes.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#169

Post by blaser-waffle » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 2:56 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #139

dpoochieni wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you see yourself as so irredeemably biased (racist or sexist?) that the network you keep is also this badly biased?

Most people hang out with people who are like them.

"people like them" is relative. Most of my crew are programmers -- but are Chinese, Indian, and German.

Re: Limitations and pitfalls of the job interview

#170

Post by 908B64B197 » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

blaser-waffle wrote: post #166

908B64B197 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or who don't interview at all. [0] I've seen great devs intern twice at the same company while in college and spend several years there as full time right after graduating, only jumping ships when a friend at an other company specifically reached out. They are essentially invisible to any recruiters. [0] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/

Internships and direct, intra-personal headhunting isn't new, and is absolutely a part of HR & hiring. But those interns were interviewed, no doubt.

Yes, but the company hiring them took a chance on them earlier and was willing to invest for at least a year before getting a junior dev. And I find that the interview at intern level can be less strict.