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Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

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Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#11

Post by 082349872349872 »

Animats wrote: post #3

Yes, Tacitus is, sadly, relevant again. A big problem in the US is that Congress has abandoned so much power as an institution.

Thinking of I, Claudius' King Log[1], has anyone thought to put 'Victory'[2] in charge of middle-eastern peace?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA1SK5vXkAQAEAS?format=jpg&name=...

[1] as opposed to King Stork (Perry 44).

[2] An old trick for maintaining the peace in a herd is to put out more piles of hay than there are horses, so the dominant horses can politic to their hearts' content but everyone still gets fed.

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#13

Post by analbumcover »

Eyght wrote: post #9
Animats wrote: post #3

Yes, Tacitus is, sadly, relevant again. A big problem in the US is that Congress has abandoned so much power as an institution.

I think Tacitus' most useful lesson for american politics right now would be the importance of political compromise. When political polarization reach the kind of levels it's at in the US right now, politicians tend to sacrifice the well-being of the country to hurt their political opponents - which is bad for everyone.

I'm not sure how long you've been following American politics, but for a few decades now the Democrats have been compromising and capitulating at almost every turn while the Republicans have staunchly refused to do this.

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#14

Post by AnimalMuppet »

analbumcover wrote: post #13
Eyght wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tacitus' most useful lesson for american politics right now would be the importance of political compromise. When political polarization reach the kind of levels it's at in the US right now, politicians tend to sacrifice the well-being of the country to hurt their political opponents - which is bad for everyone.

I'm not sure how long you've been following American politics, but for a few decades now the Democrats have been compromising and capitulating at almost every turn while the Republicans have staunchly refused to do this.

I'm not sure if you've been following recent American politics, but that seems to be over.

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#15

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

>> Therefore, it was no exaggeration to argue that rhetoric — a quintessentially Roman art — “had died with public liberty.”

I beg your pardon? "Quintessentially Roman"? "Rhetoric"? That is even a Greek word. Rhetoric was invented and taught by the Greeks to the world: Demosthenes, Lucurgus, Lysias, Protagoras, Gorgias, Isocrates, Antiphon, Aeschines, Andocides, Dinarchus, Hypereides, Isaeus... those were the great orators of antiquity. And they were not Romans.

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#16

Post by analbumcover »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #14
analbumcover wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how long you've been following American politics, but for a few decades now the Democrats have been compromising and capitulating at almost every turn while the Republicans have staunchly refused to do this.

I'm not sure if you've been following recent American politics, but that seems to be over.

Which part? Republican obstructionism or Democratic capitulation?

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#17

Post by AnimalMuppet »

analbumcover wrote: post #16
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you've been following recent American politics, but that seems to be over.

Which part? Republican obstructionism or Democratic capitulation?

Democratic capitulation. It has been replaced by Democratic obstructionism.

And if suspect that you should be able to tell that, if you care to actually look.

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#18

Post by analbumcover »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #17
analbumcover wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part? Republican obstructionism or Democratic capitulation?

Democratic capitulation. It has been replaced by Democratic obstructionism. And if suspect that you should be able to tell that, if you care to actually look.

The CARES Act was a compromise, the refusal by the House to enforce subpoenas was a compromise. Even their choice of presidential candidate is a compromise of sorts, see Biden's "nothing would fundamentally change" comment to donors. Where do you see obstructionism on their part?

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#19

Post by AnimalMuppet »

analbumcover wrote: post #18
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democratic capitulation. It has been replaced by Democratic obstructionism. And if suspect that you should be able to tell that, if you care to actually look.

The CARES Act was a compromise, the refusal by the House to enforce subpoenas was a compromise. Even their choice of presidential candidate is a compromise of sorts, see Biden's "nothing would fundamentally change" comment to donors. Where do you see obstructionism on their part?

A number of places, but just for example: Sanctuary cities. Even though they lost the battle on the federal level, the cities try their best to obstruct the enforcement of federal law.

Re: Thrones Wreathed in Shadow: Tacitus and the psychology of authoritarianism

#20

Post by analbumcover »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #19
analbumcover wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CARES Act was a compromise, the refusal by the House to enforce subpoenas was a compromise. Even their choice of presidential candidate is a compromise of sorts, see Biden's "nothing would fundamentally change" comment to donors. Where do you see obstructionism on their part?

A number of places, but just for example: Sanctuary cities. Even though they lost the battle on the federal level, the cities try their best to obstruct the enforcement of federal law.

In the political context obstructionism refers to attempts to delay or otherwise interfere with the legislative process. Which the Democrats may engage in, but I haven't seen any evidence demonstrating that.

Sanctuary cities do not obstruct the legislative process, they are just a form civil disobedience. This probably can be deemed obstruction of justice, but that has nothing to do with obstructionism.

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