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Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

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Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#181

Post by [deleted] »

krasin wrote: post #177
sbierwagen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game console manufacturing definitely is low-mix compared to cars, but it's not like they're stamping out spoons: depending on how you count, there were something like 19 revisions to the PS3 motherboard, as Sony worked to reduce chip count and shrink PCB size: https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions

Specifically, in the context of assembly, as long as dimensions and locations of each connector stay the same, it does not really matter for the automated assembly line.

[deleted]

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#182

Post by CobrastanJorji »

zbrozek wrote: post #45

Lots of folks here are talking about the latency and throughput, but nobody is amazed at what the robots are doing. Plugging in cables and putting down tape is fiddly and hard. I'm super impressed that they elected to automate those things based on cost merit. Massive kudos to the manufacturing engineers who managed to pull that off.

Could you elaborate the cost merit thing? It was my main question and I couldn't find anything on it. How much do they save using robots instead of people to attach some cables? Is the benefit in failure ratio or do they actually expect to save some money by designing and building robots?

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#183

Post by blackrock »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #83
blakesterz wrote: post #5

"The 31.4-meter line, completed in 2018, has the ability to churn out a new console every 30 seconds." That seems.... slow? I mean, I have no idea what I expected, but 2 a minute, is that really fast for this type of manufacturing? How does that compare to Xbox or maybe iPhone output? I'm sure 2 a minute is really impressive, but I started reading that thinking something like hundreds or thousands an hour, I guess I…

Controls engineer here - no, that's pretty normal. I'm accustomed to automotive work, but I believe the electronics assembly lines are similar. The flexible materials handling stuff (connecting flat flex cables? Applying Kapton tape?) is indeed super impressive, but the timing is ordinary. A sizeable 6-axis robot like those used here has a minimum cycle time of a second or two for the simplest possible "move in, plac…

Can you, or someone else, share your experience in becoming a Controls Engineer?

Is your educational background in Mechanical Engineering or Electrical Engineering?

I’ve always found programming robots to be fascinating. And especially when building a robot to build other robots. I’m sure others will be interested in learning of this as well.

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#184

Post by AceJohnny2 »

shostack wrote: post #161
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was this little game I played on Linux years ago where you played an AI trying to reach singularity status while evading detection by humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame:_Singularity Early in the game, you'd hack machines to run mechanical-turk style jobs to earn money. Later you'd build a factory to manufacture more processors... ;)

That sounds like it has some Universal Paperclips vibes.

It is a "cookie-clicker" style game, with the added twist that you have to evade detection, so need to balance risk/reward of various upgrades.

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#185

Post by dorgo »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #147
vmception wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had invested in a semiconductor factory early last decade, and it had started making bitcoin miners, it had reminding me of Zion from the Matrix because it seemed like the first time that a machine could make another machine which could immediately start earning a negotiable asset and then transacting for resources. Very surreal to think about.

There was this little game I played on Linux years ago where you played an AI trying to reach singularity status while evading detection by humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame:_Singularity Early in the game, you'd hack machines to run mechanical-turk style jobs to earn money. Later you'd build a factory to manufacture more processors... ;)

The next step takes place after the singularity and ist the other way around. Humans try to stay below the awareness of the AI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_War:_Fleet_Command

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#186

Post by ginko »

monkpit wrote: post #37
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're talking about is the latency - start to end for construction for each is 30 seconds. But what the article is talking about is the throughput - one finished very 30 seconds - doesn't mention how long each takes to make start to finish. A throughput of one every 30 seconds is only a million per year. They have sold 100 million PS4s.

We are also assuming that the article is worded correctly. It could very well mean that the assembly time for 1 unit is 30 seconds total from start to finish, and the wording is just inaccurate. It happens a lot with articles like this, so who knows. EDIT: another commenter points out that another version of the article does indeed say 30 seconds to complete one unit, as opposed to “one unit per 30 seconds”

>another commenter points out that another version of the article does indeed say 30 seconds to complete one unit, as opposed to “one unit per 30 seconds

How would that even be possible? Also what's are the start and end state here? Just pure assembly? Surely printing the PCBs can't possibly take a fraction of 30s. Neither can placing and SMD soldering the components.

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#187

Post by mey »

hobofan wrote: post #128
bserge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing stuff. I imagine soon enough people will stop asking for "Made in [your own country]", and start asking for "Made by humans"

You mean like the trend of "Artisan" products that's been going on (maybe ended already?) the last decade with Etsy and hipsters?

Explored further in book, The Diamond Age

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#188

Post by tetraca »

rusk wrote: post #149
tetraca wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> C64 shipped something like 20 Million units over its lifetime. You could use it as a gaming machine (many did) - or you could go further if you wanted to. How is this state much different from installing Steam on a PC with a couple controllers and sticking it in your living room, besides the C64 being extremely cheap and (as far as I know) not as customizable?

Cheap and providing a long lived homogenous platform. Apple do this to a certain extent but not at the price point. You can customise with peripherals.

I would argue that the PC is (or will be) a longer lived platform, with homogenized interfaces that let it stay in the game far better than the C64 could dream of. My budget 8 year old PC - which initially had the cheapest CPU I could possibly buy for the socket - is able to handle itself admirably well, even on newest generation games because of how far progressive PC upgrades can carry things these days. Meanwhile, I'm confident there is likely a complete chasm in what could be accomplished on a C64 with peripherals vs a cheap 386 PC Clone released just 8 years later (or an 1990 Amiga, or a Mac for that matter). And even a Mac of comparable price from the same era as my own PC would have been a shelf piece far earlier than this PC will be.

PCIe slots can carry you pretty darn far, and if you can use a Genesis cartridge, you can upgrade a PCI slot. For instance, on mine I added: USB 3.2, an NVMe slot, and a new graphics card. If I wanted to, I could throw in a faster network card. I could easily use the latest generation graphics cards without issue. I can play a game with at least 60fps in 4K. The only thing that really limits you is the CPU socket and the memory. Even then, after a few years you can throw in the highest end (or near highest end) server CPU for dirt cheap and some better and larger sticks RAM for not so bad a price either.

Re: Playstation's secret weapon: a nearly all-automated factory

#190

Post by barrenko »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #142
sprafa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what Elon learnt from that experience is that manufacturing things is hard, and that building that knowhow and ability to both build and troubleshoot robot factories like this one is not something you do overnight, even if you hire the best engineers. Basically it’s unlike software and that might be where he stumbled.

Andy Grove used to talk about this a lot - that manufacturing know-how does not come easily, and that continuous improvement and innovation in manufacturing depends on continuing to actually do it. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/opinion/andy-groves-warni...

That man was something else.
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