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H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

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Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#81
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>some objective measure of fidelity to the original This is part of the problem. What is an "objective" measure of perceptual fidelity to the original?

A measure that has consistently high agreement when evaluated by humans, repeatable across laboratories. Image quality tests can (and are) be conducted in a structured fashion.

No such measure exists, at least not one that can’t be gamed.

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#82
At some point the compressed version of "Joker" will be 45 chars:

"Sequel to Dark Night starring Joaquin Phoenix"

Of course we will not have to film movies in the first place then. We will just put a description into a compressor start watching.

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#83
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?Art... Care to try your luck?

I'm confused. How is Sisvel able to sell a license for AV1 patents when they're not a member of AOMedia? Do they actually have AV1 patents, or are they trying to trick companies that would rather pay up than risk violating patents?

That's what patent trolling is

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#84
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty secret of video codecs is that you can't make a modern video codec that isn't patent encumbered, which in turn makes it so that even if they wanted to be open, they go for defensive patents, which in turn perpetuate the situation. At least the patent licenses usually used with MPEG mean that private use of open source implementations is free.

Are AV1 and VP9 not modern video codecs? Or are you suggesting the patent claims have substance?

They are modern video codecs which are playing chicken with possible submarine patents.

Ultimately, it's a question of how much you're gonna risk to get where you want, and how much power/influence/wealth you can bring to squash a possible lawsuit.

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#85
post #41
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one trusted numbers like this, and followed a chain of en vogue codecs back through history, you'd expect that a modern codec would produce files sizes like 3% of MPEG-2 on the same input data. It's all spin. I'm sure it does better, but I'm equally sure it'll turn out to be an incremental benefit in practice. > I wonder how many more CPU instructions are required per second of decoded video compared to HEVC. CPU…

Video sizes are not shrinking. 8K is coming, with even bigger sizes on the way. That matters at scale. As long as someone sees the benefit, people will keep pursuing it. Compression (as like all tech) is a moving target with the platforms regularly improving on many axes.

[deleted]

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#86
post #3

Huh. I wonder how encoding speeds compare. I rarely chose h265 over h264 because similar levels of visual quality took massively more time.

But for most situation you encode once and play multiple times. Wouldn't it be better to reduce storage and bandwidth costs with a smaller file (assuming the same quality)?

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#87
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty secret of video codecs is that you can't make a modern video codec that isn't patent encumbered, which in turn makes it so that even if they wanted to be open, they go for defensive patents, which in turn perpetuate the situation. At least the patent licenses usually used with MPEG mean that private use of open source implementations is free.

Are AV1 and VP9 not modern video codecs? Or are you suggesting the patent claims have substance?

There are patents that cover AV1 and VP9 they just are just licensed without royalties: https://aomedia.googlesource.com/aom/+/refs/heads/master/PAT...

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#88
post #9

Naively hoped I'd read 'this will be released to the community under a GPL license' or similar. Instead found the words 'patent' and 'transparent licensing model'. I appreciate that it costs money and time to develop these algorithms, but when you're backed by multi-billion dollar "partners from industry including Apple, Ericsson, Intel, Huawei, Microsoft, Qualcomm, and Sony" perhaps they could swallow the costs? It…

Is H.265 released under a GPL-like licenses? If not, how do softwares like Handbrake use it?

x265 ffmpeg

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#89
post #13

Can anyone verify if this is a real number? It’s possible sometimes to make surprising claims (such as 50% lower size) by relying on unusual or unrealistic situations. I would rather if they use a standard set of test videos with different content and resolutions, and some objective measure of fidelity to the original, when quoting these percentages. But if the 50% number is real, then that is truly remarkable. I won…

If one trusted numbers like this, and followed a chain of en vogue codecs back through history, you'd expect that a modern codec would produce files sizes like 3% of MPEG-2 on the same input data. It's all spin. I'm sure it does better, but I'm equally sure it'll turn out to be an incremental benefit in practice. > I wonder how many more CPU instructions are required per second of decoded video compared to HEVC. CPU…

MPEG-2 doesn't support video larger than 1920x1152, so it's hard to compare on 4k video, let alone 8k. But according to https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321412719_Subjectiv... H.265 can achieve similar visual quality with 10% of the bit rate of MPEG-2 even on SD video (832*480). [Edit: not 720p]

Re: H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

#90
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty secret of video codecs is that you can't make a modern video codec that isn't patent encumbered, which in turn makes it so that even if they wanted to be open, they go for defensive patents, which in turn perpetuate the situation. At least the patent licenses usually used with MPEG mean that private use of open source implementations is free.

Are AV1 and VP9 not modern video codecs? Or are you suggesting the patent claims have substance?

AV1 and VP9 are covered by plenty of patents. One of the differences here is that there is a retaliation clause in the licenses for AV1 and VP9. https://aomedia.org/license/patent-license/

"1.3. Defensive Termination. If any Licensee, its Affiliates, or its agents initiates patent litigation or files, maintains, or voluntarily participates in a lawsuit against another entity or any person asserting that any Implementation infringes Necessary Claims, any patent licenses granted under this License directly to the Licensee are immediately terminated as of the date of the initiation of action unless 1) that suit was in response to a corresponding suit regarding an Implementation first brought against an initiating entity, or 2) that suit was brought to enforce the terms of this License (including intervention in a third-party action by a Licensee)."

This makes it much harder for practicing entities or their licensees to assert claims against other practicing entities over the formats.

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