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Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

bloomberg.com

101–110 of 137 posts

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Boeing should be bailed out (but with prison time and fines that impoverish for anyone involved in the cover up)

Boeing should be forced into Chapter 11 so new ownership with clean hands can fix them. That’s the whole reason we have a bankruptcy code.

“You can’t handle the truth!”

Second favorite Nicholson quote, but so true.

Seriously, Boeing will internally deal with what happened. Need proof? Ever wonder what happened to say, Rockwell International (most famous for Apollo and Space Shuttle)? Yeah, you should’a bought Boeing at $30. ((Doh!))

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#102
I find this article too lenient and fan-boyish with Nortel inner value.

It looks like that the hack is the reason of the complete collapse of the company. But the article gives the following sentence without even reflecting on it:

>

And, in my opinion, such a hack and the lack of action of Nortel after being informed of the hack are also symptoms of a defective organization.

This is probably an element of little value, but I knew some people that did work at Nortel in engineering and this is just my opinion but they were technically very very bad but they were convinced otherwise. From others I also got the feedback that the company was the kind of place where most people fake working.

Just to give you an example: around 2016, one of a former manager at Nortel that was now a high level executive in another company forced employees to work in a packed open space despite there being a lot of empty space on the same floor. Why? Because he knew better than anyone that software engineers are more productive in an open space... Despite recent studies and the opinion of the poor employees themselves. At the same time, the moving allowed him to get an individual closed room for himself...

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I read it. I also lived with Nortel gear during this timeframe. They were not great at much of anything. They were more often the only game in town, and they knew it. Canadian schools and government agencies bought their gear because it was canadian not because it was any good. Those touchscreen tablet controller things? Does anyone remember how bad touchscreens were in those days? Give me a blackberry with a mec…

That fancy attire really doesn't look that great : http://www.geocities.ws/cityofottawainfo/celeb_m.htm Proof that you can't buy taste. For everything else, obviously there's Mastercard.

Interesting link to read.

I used to do the Xmas cards bulk mail for Canadian celebrities for several charities in the 80s. The 9-track tape(!) had stage names and real names for about 5,000 celebs, so that was interesting to peruse.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#104
post #21

Have any other sources corroborated this story? Bloomberg News lost a ton of credibility with me after their “The Big Hack” cover story [1], claiming Apple and Amazon had been hacked by chips secretly added to their servers in the factory. The picture of the chip on the cover was purely a work of imagination. To my knowledge, no supporting evidence was ever produced, nor were any of the widespread criticisms of the s…

Thank you for reminding everyone. I don't trust Bloomberg News at this point — "The Big Hack" seems to have been pure fiction, and this article seems to follow the beaten path to maximum clicks and ad impressions.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#105
Internal fraud not external malice, was the cause of Nortel's demise:

" Investigators ultimately found about $3 billion in revenue had been booked improperly in 1998, 1999, and 2000.

More than $2 billion was moved into later years, about $750 million was pushed forward beyond 2003 and about $250 million was wiped away completely.

The accounting scandal hurt both Nortel's reputation and finances, as Nortel spent an estimated US$400 million on outside auditors and management consultants to retrain staff.

On April 28, 2004 amidst the accounting scandal, three of Nortel's top lieutenants—Douglas Beatty, CEO Frank Dunn and Michael Gollogly—were fired for financial mismanagement.They were later charged with fraud by the RCMP.

The United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) also filed charges against them and four vice-presidents for civil fraud"

There are many other companies today, that are equally fraudulent.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#106
post #17

There's a lot here beyond just the hacking. Huawei was able to grow so insanely fast because they had access to a blank check and endless credit from the Chinese government. Nortel and others meanwhile had to finance things themselves. Private companies cannot compete with governments. Governments, especially those with sovereign currencies, can do things that private companies simply cannot do and have pockets far d…

This sounds like a more plausible explanation for why Huawei succeeded.

Simply because of unlimited support and funding from the China central government, in order to get independent technology Research and Development.

And plus, the financing for foreign countries, is also super important. There was talk about some African nations, only interested in buying Chinese products, simply because the Chinese provided favorable financing terms. Terms which the western countries refused to do.

In this case, the western countries wanted to make as much money as possible from one deal. Whereas China played the long game, and chose to make less money per deal, but had to strike a lot more deals, to make their money. So, China made their money in volume.

It seems there are different goals at play here.

The countries in the west, have their national champions, and their own governments support them at a holistic and policy level. And each company tries to compete with each other to win a bigger slice of the pie.

Whereas in China, their goal, is simply for technology independence from the west. So, they are willing to throw as much money at the problem as possible, in order to achieve that goal.

This also harkens back to the atomic bomb analogy. That once the technology was proven to be scientifically possible, then it can be independently achieve by a foreign government, if they put enough time, money, and people at solving the problem.

And here, it seems Huawei did just that.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is neither Chinese nor American and has no horse in this race, I find it amusing how strong the bias against China is on this site. TikTok accesses clipboard, it must be an intelligence operation; LinkedIn and AirBnB do the same, I guess the devs were lazy and didn't do enough testing. Someone find a security hole in a Huawei device, that must be a communist backdoor; a Cisco device has the same securi…

> we judge ourselves by our intentions People also judge others by past behaviors. Wrong or right, many Americans see China as an enemy. News is filtered through that light. And some news, like convictions about IP theft by Chinese (Xu at IBM, 3 individuals at Sinovel, etc, etc, etc), leave little room for debate. These stories color the ones which may or may not be nefarious like TikTok. Guilt by association.

> People also judge others by past behaviors.

But they are very selective in doing that. Even when the same actions are done in the same context they will use different measures for different people based on their sentiment toward them. And that just adds to the bias and fuels the cycle. As explained by this simple but accurate picture [0]. They see China and and their hackers as enemies. Do you think they see the NSA and by extension their own country as an enemy? Discarding (unwittingly) half of the context makes it a lot easier to assume they have the moral high ground.

Propaganda doesn't mean it's a lie, just that you take the same truth and shape it into an opinion for the people, depending on what you want to achieve. And it's a tool used by every superpower.

[0] https://i.redd.it/nn3k727v08g01.jpg

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#109
post #69

This is the decade old Brian Shields, ex-Nortel security adviser, story that got resuscitated against Huawei for the 5G war. No one took it seriously at the time because it doesn't comport with reality. Nortel primarily died from poorly conceived massive spending that fucked them during the dotcom/telecom bubble crash, executives started cooking the books, it was discovered, the company imploded. Don't get me wrong,…

Michael Bloomberg is not running for president any more ... but yeah ... he definitely had a China "problem" and he might still be interested in a political position.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#110
post #39

The telecommunications industry goes from a massive bubble in year 2000 to an extreme cost focus just one or two years later. Sending tens of thousands of engineers into unemployment and cutting research and development to the bone. Talk to anyone who had a job in the sector back then, they will you this. All those engineers eventualy were reemployed in other industries such as software and that helped creating the b…

> willing to invest unlike us in the west The article says Huawei was given $10 billion or more in free or almost free loans.

This is my point exactly.

They were willing to invest where we were no longer willing.

You can say that it is state capitalism and not free competition. But let there be no doubt; had there been free competition now and not a massive boycot led by the US government against Huawei, then Huawei would have been absolutely dominant.

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