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Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

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Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#11
post #8

Nortel Market Cap Peak per year, in $USD Billions: 1997: $16 1998: $22 1999: $105 2000: $283 2001: $56 2002: $26 The dot com bubble produced insane valuations around the turn of the century. The run-up to the collapse was breathtaking.

Dang, so someone who invested in 1997 would have still made money in 2002, though they would have a lot of psychological pain from the ride down from the peak.

Lol, that's me and AMZN. Bought at (split adjusted) $1.50 in 1997, rode it up to $86 in 1999, held all the way down to $6. Finally sold at about $20, still thinking I was brilliant.

I have to laugh about it cuz I can't bear the alternative.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#12

Research In Motion > Nortel. Nortel built bad routers. RIM created blackberries, the smartphones before smartphones were a thing.

Not going to argue your point about products, but from a financial standpoint, RIMM/Blackberry's peak market cap was about $81 billion in 2008. Nortel's peak was $283 billion in 2000. Nortel was huge. Of course, the market was in a huge bubble at the time.

Market cap is a measurement of how other people, stockholders, think of your company. It means little on the ground. A stock can double, or half, overnight. That doesn't mean the company is suddenly double or half its former size.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang, so someone who invested in 1997 would have still made money in 2002, though they would have a lot of psychological pain from the ride down from the peak.

Lol, that's me and AMZN. Bought at (split adjusted) $1.50 in 1997, rode it up to $86 in 1999, held all the way down to $6. Finally sold at about $20, still thinking I was brilliant. I have to laugh about it cuz I can't bear the alternative.

It's alright, no matter how bad that feels, it will never be as bad as all of us who missed the BTC boat when it was a little baby a few years ago. People spending it frivolously and treating it like it was worthless toy money since it was pretty easy to get. Then look at it now...

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#15
post #7

Research In Motion > Nortel. Nortel built bad routers. RIM created blackberries, the smartphones before smartphones were a thing.

Did you even read the article? Nortel built a lot of cellular networks and owned a huge chunk if IP for it (that was surprisingly valuable during the bankruptcy auctions). They also had quite the large long-haul fiber optic install base (which they bet the farm on, that quickly became commodified, which is really what bankrupted them). They also had one of the first commercially available DSL modems. Sure, they built…

Please do not insinuate or ask if someone read the article. You may not have noticed that this is against the rules.

"Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that.""

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? Nortel built a lot of cellular networks and owned a huge chunk if IP for it (that was surprisingly valuable during the bankruptcy auctions). They also had quite the large long-haul fiber optic install base (which they bet the farm on, that quickly became commodified, which is really what bankrupted them). They also had one of the first commercially available DSL modems. Sure, they built…

Oh, I read it. I also lived with Nortel gear during this timeframe. They were not great at much of anything. They were more often the only game in town, and they knew it. Canadian schools and government agencies bought their gear because it was canadian not because it was any good. Those touchscreen tablet controller things? Does anyone remember how bad touchscreens were in those days? Give me a blackberry with a mec…

That fancy attire really doesn't look that great : http://www.geocities.ws/cityofottawainfo/celeb_m.htm

Proof that you can't buy taste. For everything else, obviously there's Mastercard.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#17
There's a lot here beyond just the hacking. Huawei was able to grow so insanely fast because they had access to a blank check and endless credit from the Chinese government. Nortel and others meanwhile had to finance things themselves.

Private companies cannot compete with governments. Governments, especially those with sovereign currencies, can do things that private companies simply cannot do and have pockets far deeper than any private company can ever hope to have. That's why China has won the global game. Everyone else is fielding their star players, sure, but China's star players are all on 'roids in the form of endless government backed credit and many other forms of state backing.

To see an American example, look at American dominance of aerospace. America has stealth fighters, probably a ton of secret stuff responsible for a good number of UFO reports, and rockets that land themselves because the US government backs promising aerospace companies generously. This has been the case since WWII. Lockheed Skunk Works is almost 100% government funded. SpaceX isn't entirely government funded but they've certainly benefited from NASA funding, NASA R&D handholding, and in the beginning got a transfer of IP related to NASA's previous research into low-cost rocket engines. Without all NASA's help I doubt they'd be where they are now.

China is doing this everywhere with everything.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I read it. I also lived with Nortel gear during this timeframe. They were not great at much of anything. They were more often the only game in town, and they knew it. Canadian schools and government agencies bought their gear because it was canadian not because it was any good. Those touchscreen tablet controller things? Does anyone remember how bad touchscreens were in those days? Give me a blackberry with a mec…

That fancy attire really doesn't look that great : http://www.geocities.ws/cityofottawainfo/celeb_m.htm Proof that you can't buy taste. For everything else, obviously there's Mastercard.

And the cost shows how they wasted money. Leather bodysuits are not 1,000,000$ in any currency. And that couldn't possibly have been solid gold. It would be too soft. They paid 1,000,000$ for an off-the-rack fetish outfit and some a gold-plated hand-hammered steel sheet. A live-in designer? Nobody since 18th century royalty has needed a live-in fashion designer.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#19
> “This is plain and simple: Economic espionage did in Nortel,” Shields says. “And all you have to do is look at what entity in the world took over No. 1 and how quickly they did it.”

The definitive book on the collapse of Nortel is 100 Days: The Rush to Judgement that Killed Nortel by James Bagnall, a journalist for the Ottawa Citizen.

Occam’s razor applies here: the well documented fraud and bankruptcy at Worldcom and Global Crossing crushed Nortel. Overzealous regulators delivered the coup de grâce.

Re: Did a Chinese Hack Kill Nortel?

#20
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang, so someone who invested in 1997 would have still made money in 2002, though they would have a lot of psychological pain from the ride down from the peak.

Lol, that's me and AMZN. Bought at (split adjusted) $1.50 in 1997, rode it up to $86 in 1999, held all the way down to $6. Finally sold at about $20, still thinking I was brilliant. I have to laugh about it cuz I can't bear the alternative.

Haha, I bought AOL in the late 90's, rode it up 10x, then sold it when it sank back to 1x. A couple stocks I bought augered in so bad they were just removed from my brokerage statements, never to be seen again.
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