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Bible API

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Re: Bible API

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That hermeneutic - texts are collections of independent logical propositions - was essentially unknown in the ancient world, and cedes immense epistemological ground to the project of the enlightenment that is diametrically opposed to a Christian reading of the Scriptures, which emphasizes their unity and their role in liturgical worship. I just had to quote that sentence construction without comment. But to reply…

> Christians are what Christians do. This is generally not true. Try to replace "Christian" with "Atheist" or "Gnostic" and see how far this travels. While there are, I suppose, some distinctive practices that characterize various systems of belief (or disbelief), what distinguishes Christianity from, say, Judaism, is a set of irreconcilable beliefs (e.g., that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah). It is true that pract…

I’m positive Peter is not citing Jesus when he said that all food is clean.

This is an excellent example of how Christians take one or a few verses out of context and let them tell a story. If you would read the full passage about Peter, you’d find that the meaning of it was that whatever Gd has made clean shouldn’t be declared unclean by man. He goes on to explain it by saying that the Jews in his time weren’t allowed to go to a gentile, but, because Gd never said (when you study the Pentateuch) that any man was either clean or unclean (except certain circumstances), Peter shouldn’t consider gentile unclean by them being non-Jew.

Much of this reasoning applies to Christians when explaining that Jesus freed them from the law (eating pork, keeping Shabbat, etc), by which they basically support the questioning of Him being the Messiah. Anyone who proclaims to not follow the law, cannot be the Messiah (Deuteronomy 18:20).

However, if you’d read the NT carefully, combined with the scriptures of the scholars of that time (Hillel, Shammai, Gamaliel and more), you’d find that he’s a law obeying person, and encourages everyone to do so. Even stronger; He has much of the same understandings that the rabbis of his time have.

An example is Talmud (Shabbat 31a) where Hillel is asked to tell the Torah when the listener is standing on one foot. He answered by saying: What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this—go and study it!

This is remarkably similar to what Jesus said when someone asked Him, and Jesus responded with something that was in his time spirit, but also written in Leviticus 19:18 (Matthew 22) 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy Gd with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Also this very passage explains that Jesus didn't get rid of the law, even more so, He said that Love for Gd (in the ways mentioned and taken from the Sh'ma (Deuteronomy 6:4-9)) and love of your neighbour are the base on which you execute every law (and prophets) that's given. Without this base, everything you do is worthless, it's merely a disguise than being a righteous (Tsaddik)

Re: Bible API

#242

How can a programmer believe in god is beyond me.

How cannot he when the “logos kyrie o teos” is mentioned e.g. in Iesekiel as the self -description of the divine, meaning roughly “the master of putting thoughts into words”. Doesn’t this sound like a very description of a programmer to you?

Re: Bible API

#243
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of any movements that aim at solving the problem you are referring to? I am not a chapter and verse person, and almost my entire understanding of the Bible comes through my own remembrances, all paraphrasing now, of what I learned when I was younger. I often wonder if there's a great many people out there like myself. Seems like there is?

Sure - there are lots of folks aiming at a more authentic reading. In general, the older a church, the more it aims at a reading that avoids the modern atomizing impulse. The Catholic and Orthodox churches do some good work on that score, as do Anglican and Lutheran theologians.

I upvoted one of your earlier comments because it was a thought provoking and interesting criticism that I didn't know about and will keep in mind. So thanks for that!

Even though there are Lutheran and Anglican theologians that aims at what you call authentic reading, I would be surprised if that has a real impact of the members of these churches, and for me that is really were the focus should be.

According to: https://anglicancompass.com/scripturelessons/ "Anglicans read four passages of Scripture during Sunday worship. Out loud.

So do some other traditions, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Lutherans and others."

I would be surprised if the next week's passages would follow this week's passages, so I assume that this "ritual" will atomize the Scriptures either if they are divided into verses/chapters or not. (There are of course a lot of other parts of the life in these churches as well; but the Sunday service is still an important part).

I am used to a progression in Scripture readings, where each Book is read chronologically (with input from other Scriptures that does not follow chronologically as well), but that has little to do with if the Book is divided into verses/chapters or not. So for me personally, I doubt the atomizing of the Scriptures has a great impact.

Re: Bible API

#244
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop. Your comments in this thread stand out as particularly bad, and the commenter you've been abusing is to be commended for not reacting in kind.

I apologise as I can see how “you” could be misread as referring to the individual I was replying to, rather than a colloquial rejoinder to the use of “we”—but I would have thought that was self evident given that the Enlightenment was 250 years ago. More broadly I don’t regret anything I have said in this thread. And honestly I find it difficult to take this form of criticism seriously; offering challenge to concept…

You posted cheap religious slurs. That's insulting in the same way that slurring someone's country would be (a thing we've in fact had to warn you about in the past on HN). We ban accounts that do these things, so please don't do them any more.

Re: Bible API

#246
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - there are lots of folks aiming at a more authentic reading. In general, the older a church, the more it aims at a reading that avoids the modern atomizing impulse. The Catholic and Orthodox churches do some good work on that score, as do Anglican and Lutheran theologians.

I upvoted one of your earlier comments because it was a thought provoking and interesting criticism that I didn't know about and will keep in mind. So thanks for that! Even though there are Lutheran and Anglican theologians that aims at what you call authentic reading, I would be surprised if that has a real impact of the members of these churches, and for me that is really were the focus should be. According to: htt…

I'm glad you found it thought provoking. The liturgical churches tend to follow a lectionary, which, as you say, excerpts from the scriptures. The RCL has some passages that I think are cut poorly, but generally keeps the unit of thought at the level of the particular story or argument.

Re: Bible API

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many homes have wall hangings with scripture that the owner has never read in the bible. People quote literature they haven't read all over the place[1]. Implying its unique to the Bible means you probably haven't done your research either. [1]: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/68007/50-famous-misquota...

The difference being that for the Christian (a presumption when you see someone quote scripture) the Bible supposedly defines their worldview, as opposed to various pieces of literature.

Usually the Bible is taught via stories, especially the Gospel stories, rather than individual verses and the verses are quoted to make points.

While there are, e.g., yearly Bible plans to read everything, not many people these days have the patience to read all the numbers in Numbers and there's an incredibly limited theological value in knowing how many there were of the tribe of Napthali or what have you unless you're trying to pass a Bible quiz.

I mean, why would a modern day Christian want to memorize all the rules on kosher food when Paul explained at length why they're irrelevant to us now? Or the rules on making a potion out of the dust of the Temple floor of a temple that's no longer standing? Or the rules about wearing clothing with multiple materials?

Yes, there are yet some principles that might be extracted of some of these--take for example, not muzzling the ox while it's treading the grain as an exhortation to take care of your animals and anyone who serves you. Or the prohibition on harvesting the last bits of crop at the edges of your fields, which were then reserved for the poor, to always reserve something for the poor among you.

But these things tend to be explained elsewhere and it ends up as trivia that doesn't matter much unless someone is insistent that a Real Christian [TM] must know whether the witch of Endor is from Samuel, Sirach or Star Wars... which in turn depends on whether she's named Charal or not.

Yes, really -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_of_Endor https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Charal

Re: Bible API

#249
post #58

One of the most interesting things to happen to the scriptures is their balkanization into verses. We generally don't atomize other writings that way, and when folks read the scriptures as a series of disconnected logical propositions all sorts of wackiness ensues. What would it look like to have an API for the collected works of Jane Austen that returned snippets (some of which are not even complete sentences)? How…

Well, some books of the bible are more aphoristic, like Proverbs or Ecclesiastes, as are plenty of other ancient texts like the Quran or the Sutras or the Tao te Ching. There's also Jewish numerology, and the mystical(?) idea that the arrangement of the letters in the Pentateuch is only one of many possible perfect combinations. The concept of divine infallibility definitely has a lot of weird implications, or semi-i…

Ecclesiastes is very easy to take out of context. Individual verses seem like nice aphorisms, but the book as a whole is actually quite skeptical and even critical, at least of certain worldviews. In some ways, it's a series of rejections of easy answers.

Re: Bible API

#250

This is neat. This makes me curious about the licencing around popular translations, like the Jerusalem Bible or the NIV; is it not legal to post those translations??

Apparently, the Bible is the Word of God. I'm not sure if copyright applies. Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow." Acts 5:29 says: "Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human…

For the purposes of copyright, the author is whoever translates/compiles it.

This isn’t just an issue for the bible; if you want the uncensored version of Samuel Pepys’ diary, for instance, you have to pay for it; it needs translation from shorthand, and the 19th century translations are censored.

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