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When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

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Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#21

When India liberalized in 1991 and welcomed foreign investment again rick Coke simply bought out a lot of local competitors. Even today my favorite local soda 'thums up' is marketed as a separate drink by Coke in India. A water scarce country like India should really not promote high consumption of soda and sugar based drinks. However the same cannot be said about other industries. Pre liberalization India used to be…

> A water scarce country like India should really not promote high consumption of soda and sugar based drinks.

I mean, I can see not promoting sugary drinks in general…but what does this have to do with water scarcity?

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#23

When India liberalized in 1991 and welcomed foreign investment again rick Coke simply bought out a lot of local competitors. Even today my favorite local soda 'thums up' is marketed as a separate drink by Coke in India. A water scarce country like India should really not promote high consumption of soda and sugar based drinks. However the same cannot be said about other industries. Pre liberalization India used to be…

> A water scarce country like India should really not promote high consumption of soda and sugar based drinks. I mean, I can see not promoting sugary drinks in general…but what does this have to do with water scarcity?

It takes a lot more than the volume of water to make the same volume in soda, beer and other commercial beverages. Consider bottle sterilization, crop irrigation..

Example: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/business/energy-environme...

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#24
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin america and even india are proofs that "pure" protectionism does not work. Even China is an example of free trade working. China opened up massively , reduced customs, reduced costs of doing business etc for 3 decades before moving towards more restrictive and more protectionist policies. After learning as much as possible from foreign corporations that flocked to China. Even now, free trade would be much more…

China never allowed unfettered access to global firms. Since Deng Xiaoping opened up, the rule for a foreign firm to gain access was 1) to tie up with a local company which will have significant stake and 2) ensure technology transfer to the local company over a period. This was a pre condition for market access, and basically how electronics components makers were built. The recent stars like Huawei, Xiaomi and Leno…

As I said, China is now able to afford protectionism because of a much more foreign investment minded policy than India. It's weird to only focus on protectionism being a positive when almost all of the more protectionist countries are way behind economically. China has been the most successful when it has had the least closed economy and it didn't start producing Lenovo laptops because of protectionism. If that was the case, why don't we have Indian or Argentinian laptops by now?

Arguing that protectionism is good because you are producing beverages when the downside is literal decades lost to anemic growth and poverty is just missing the forest for the tree. India was at a similar but better place than China was, but China embraced foreign investment, liberalization, low friction to trade. And india got totally leapfrogged. Things are changing now, but for a while China was definitely much safer to invest in than India since the whole country was hellbent on not interfering with foreign investing. You were (and still are) much more likely to get your investment made worthless by aggressive "local at all costs" policies in India than in China. Look at what happened to Walmart recently. India wants desperately to skip the "industrialization" and foreign ownership phase and go directly to where china is now, but that's ignoring 30 years of smart policy in China.

Keep in mind, free trade and free international markets still allow for a very regulated economy and socialist policies. So protectionism, by reducing prosperity and investment actually cripples social programs. Scandinavia is known to be "social democrat" but still has a very open economy. Prosperity has been mostly induced by free movement of goods. Of course, China does not want to keep being a manufacturing only economy, and is moving towards a service oriented one. But that's what always happens

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#25

When Austin kicked out Lyft and Uber, local ride sharing thrived. However, the problem was they paled in comparison.

I'm sure that customers still reached their destination just fine like before ride-sharing was a thing, perhaps with only some minor inconveniences.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin america and even india are proofs that "pure" protectionism does not work. Even China is an example of free trade working. China opened up massively , reduced customs, reduced costs of doing business etc for 3 decades before moving towards more restrictive and more protectionist policies. After learning as much as possible from foreign corporations that flocked to China. Even now, free trade would be much more…

China never allowed unfettered access to global firms. Since Deng Xiaoping opened up, the rule for a foreign firm to gain access was 1) to tie up with a local company which will have significant stake and 2) ensure technology transfer to the local company over a period. This was a pre condition for market access, and basically how electronics components makers were built. The recent stars like Huawei, Xiaomi and Leno…

" You will not find a single example of any country becoming developed following free trade except for island nations like Singapore"

Canada, Australia, New Zealand and in reality, the US as well.

The US has always been pretty open.

But yes, if a nation is in shambles, it may very well make sense to make major strategic investments for the national good, but ultimately, it can't last.

Korea, Japan etc. would be much poorer today if they had continued to manage their economies in a post-war fashion.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#27
post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

This is wrong, misguided and naive. International trade when done with effective reciprocity and managing the trade deficit, can lead to competition on a larger scale, better outcome for consumers and specialization in particular aspect of manufacturing or services. Even domestically, specialization is how human species became to me. If humans continued to be inwards looking and never engaged in barter-trade or any k…

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Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#28
I was there during the liberalization. What a time to have witnessed. I remember the headline when coke bought Parle, for what was then an eye watering number.

And then several years later, TATA motors bought JLR. Of the two purchases, Coke definitely seems to have gotten the better of it.

It’s quite impressive what was managed in 1991, and the deep impact it’s left on the country.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#29
post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

Latin america and even india are proofs that "pure" protectionism does not work. Even China is an example of free trade working. China opened up massively , reduced customs, reduced costs of doing business etc for 3 decades before moving towards more restrictive and more protectionist policies. After learning as much as possible from foreign corporations that flocked to China. Even now, free trade would be much more…

I think you’ve made an argument for free trade, but your examples and logic don’t refute the value of protectionism.

China is a ridiculously protectionist state - people in the west had theorized that the market would force China to more opennness and democracy back in the day.

China instead found a way to run a market with Chinese characteristics - a dual contract system where the English contract holds little power, knowledge transfer, a closed media environment and more.

It’s worked too. China suggests that some players can extract the benefits of free trade and protectionist policy.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#30
Interesting note on thumbs up - it still exists - Coke’s attempt to phase it out resulted in consumer backlash, since there is still a large demand for it.

So they did the logical business thing and sold both.

(Although thums up may be smaller than it used and could just be dying a slower death.)

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