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When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

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Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#11

Post by thrwo334324 »

Mekantis wrote: post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

This is not surprising though, is it ?

Britain's "benign civilizing" (schools in anglo-saxon nations have no shame) policies vis-a-vis India were severely skewed against India, and towards protecting her own fledgling industries.

Mercantilism, 'a.k.a' Free Trade, was then exactly what China does now - freedom to sell my goods in your place. Opium wars too was all about 'Free Trade'.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#12

Post by mardifoufs »

Mekantis wrote: post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

Latin america and even india are proofs that "pure" protectionism does not work. Even China is an example of free trade working. China opened up massively, reduced customs, reduced costs of doing business etc for 3 decades before moving towards more restrictive and more protectionist policies. After learning as much as possible from foreign corporations that flocked to China. Even now, free trade would be much more beneficial to china economically if it wasn't for the current geopolitical situation. Of course it was very far from a totally deregulated free market, but the Chinese government craved foreign investment for most of the 1990s-2000s and did everything to attract it. India on the other hand has a very bad reputation when it comes to international investment because of it's famously poor economic (and protectionist/populist) policies that made investment very risky.

It's very hard for a country like India or Argentina to actually innovate when they restrict themselves to a local pool of knowledge, talent, and experience. And that's precisely why India has lagged far, far behind China even if they were ahead in the 1970s-80s. You don't want to reinvent everything all the time, it just isn't possible without lagging far behind and that's what happens with protectionism.You will almost always end up with a low skilled economy with basic economic output (like beverages or commodities).

It's easy to totally replace coca cola with local alternatives, it's impossible to do for sectors like semiconductors or finance when you have to start from almost 0 because no one wants to invest in a protectionist economy.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#14

Post by systemvoltage »

mardifoufs wrote: post #12
Mekantis wrote: post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

Latin america and even india are proofs that "pure" protectionism does not work. Even China is an example of free trade working. China opened up massively , reduced customs, reduced costs of doing business etc for 3 decades before moving towards more restrictive and more protectionist policies. After learning as much as possible from foreign corporations that flocked to China. Even now, free trade would be much more…

Easy to prove the point: Stop importing semiconductors and see how India or Argentina would fare.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#15

Post by adi2907 »

mardifoufs wrote: post #12
Mekantis wrote: post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

Latin america and even india are proofs that "pure" protectionism does not work. Even China is an example of free trade working. China opened up massively , reduced customs, reduced costs of doing business etc for 3 decades before moving towards more restrictive and more protectionist policies. After learning as much as possible from foreign corporations that flocked to China. Even now, free trade would be much more…

China never allowed unfettered access to global firms. Since Deng Xiaoping opened up, the rule for a foreign firm to gain access was 1) to tie up with a local company which will have significant stake and 2) ensure technology transfer to the local company over a period. This was a pre condition for market access, and basically how electronics components makers were built. The recent stars like Huawei, Xiaomi and Lenovo could only be built once the supply ecosystem was local. You will not find a single example of any country becoming developed following free trade except for island nations like Singapore

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#16

Post by twic »

madmax108 wrote: post #9

Travelling the world, one of the things that always strikes me is how omnipresent Coke and Pepsi are. But at the same time, every part of the world has it's own local twist on sugary sodas. The duopoly is so nice: You want something familiar, you always have it. You want something that cements a place in your mind, you have that too manufactured by the same conglomerates! A sip of Thums up takes me back to my college…

I need to go back to Malta to drink some Kinnie!

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#17

Post by tadasZ »

In my opinion Vita-Cola, Polo-Cockta, Kofola faded not because of coca cola, but because they were controlled by soviet mentality people from "higher status", party people and so on, who didn't care about anything but themselves, a lot of companies disappeared after soviet union collapsed (thank god it did collapse) because of crime, corruption and complete incompetence.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#18

Post by BMorearty »

twic wrote: post #16
madmax108 wrote: post #9

Travelling the world, one of the things that always strikes me is how omnipresent Coke and Pepsi are. But at the same time, every part of the world has it's own local twist on sugary sodas. The duopoly is so nice: You want something familiar, you always have it. You want something that cements a place in your mind, you have that too manufactured by the same conglomerates! A sip of Thums up takes me back to my college…

I need to go back to Malta to drink some Kinnie!

Haha, I never expected to see Kinnie on HN.

My wife's parents are American immigrants from Malta. I tried Kinnie when we visited Malta. Not personally a fan. I think it's an acquired taste.

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#19

Post by rbecker »

systemvoltage wrote: post #8
Mekantis wrote: post #2

People like to pretend that protectionism is such a bad thing. But Western nations built themselves through protectionism, it's something China has been doing to great success and the Asian tiger economies (primarily South Korea) did as well. After all, there's only so much you can do for your population if you never ensure a steady supply of high quality jobs that provide a path into the middle class, and you don't…

This is wrong, misguided and naive. International trade when done with effective reciprocity and managing the trade deficit, can lead to competition on a larger scale, better outcome for consumers and specialization in particular aspect of manufacturing or services. Even domestically, specialization is how human species became to me. If humans continued to be inwards looking and never engaged in barter-trade or any k…

> International trade when done with effective reciprocity and managing the trade deficit

This is exactly what protectionism can help achieve. Without it, you get banana republics, wholly owned by foreign multinationals.

It's telling you ignore the parent posts Asian tiger economies as examples of successful protectionism, and instead address the ridiculous strawman of "never engaged in barter-trade or any kind of bilateral exchange either with monetary instrument or goods/services"

Re: When India kicked out Coca-Cola, local sodas thrived (2019)

#20

Post by jlg23 »

tadasZ wrote: post #17

In my opinion Vita-Cola, Polo-Cockta, Kofola faded not because of coca cola, but because they were controlled by soviet mentality people from "higher status", party people and so on, who didn't care about anything but themselves, a lot of companies disappeared after soviet union collapsed (thank god it did collapse) because of crime, corruption and complete incompetence.

Vita-Cola is again alive and kicking, and I am one who actually loves it. I am sure this is not just nostalgia, because, even though I was born in the GDR, I was 9 when the wall fell and maybe had 3 glasses of Vita Cola before.

"crime, corruption and complete incompetence" are often cited as the reasons for why local brands disappeared, along with "nostalgia" for their revival. I personally believe people just wanted to have the stuff they could not get before - or "curiosity" to put it in one word. Once that was over, people went by taste again and yes, there are actually customers who just like a higher acidity, less sugar or simply a different taste.

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