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De-escalating social media conflict

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Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#301

Post by wolco »

mirimir wrote: post #266
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the Soviet Union was arguably fascist // You appear to be starting from an assumption that everything USSR did, politically, was left-wing; and thus concluding that fascism can be left wing. A dictator is diametrical opposed to left-wing ideology. What you're doing is like saying uxoricide (murdering your wife) is part of FOSS, because a proponent of FOSS did it.

> You appear to be starting from an assumption that everything USSR did, politically, was left-wing; and thus concluding that fascism can be left wing. No, I did not. Basically I'm arguing that the USSR pretended to be "left-wing" but were actually "right-wing". So perhaps they were fascist, but that doesn't imply that truly left-wing governments and movements are fascist.

The USSR is what happens when you take left wing to the extreme. Go too far replacing free speech with right speech and you get censorship. Censorship requires a heavy police state to enforce.

It's the natural progression.

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#302

Post by teddyh »

You can only de-escalate when both the two parties and the medium of communication all agree that de-escalation is in fact desired. In today’s environment, often at least two of the three instead want to escalate the conflict: Trolls and outrage addicts will by definition always want to escalate, and the platforms are all incentivized to maximize “engagement”.

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#303

Post by [deleted] »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #212
Viliam1234 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happens in capitalism, and it happens in socialism, because it happens everywhere. It is like saying "entropy increases in capitalism"; technically true, but misleading. Things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law happen regardless of political regime or economical system. In different situations they take different forms: in capitalism, companies try to maximize (short-term) (perceived) shareholder…

>The world has many problems, but lack of military dictatorships controlled by a communist party is not one of them. // There's N.Korea, but that's not controlled by a communist party. It's notionally controlled by people who call themselves Communist, but they don't appear to do anything ideologically communist. World politics isn't my strong point, where did you have in mind? I note that your structure was "in capi…

[deleted]

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#304

Post by saagarjha »

aebtebeten wrote: post #261
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The world has many problems, but lack of military dictatorships controlled by a communist party is not one of them. // There's N.Korea, but that's not controlled by a communist party. It's notionally controlled by people who call themselves Communist, but they don't appear to do anything ideologically communist. World politics isn't my strong point, where did you have in mind? I note that your structure was "in capi…

I have no idea if https://dprktoday.com truly is[1] DPRK or someone else's black propaganda (nor do I read korean) but the pictures on it are congruent with those from former communist countries. New factory, with athletic courts (and maybe a stage/multipurpose hall?) for the workers: https://dprktoday.com/content/great/4/sajin/image/2020-05-02... Kids wearing red kerchiefs in botanic: https://dprktoday.com/photos/18…

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If it's "DPRK is communist", you're not really doing that because nothing you mentioned has anything to do with communism.

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#305

Post by saagarjha »

chinesempire wrote: post #287
sukilot wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are long past the point of "fascism" meaning anything but "government that hurts people"

As Italian, with a grandfather imprisoned by the fascists and the other sent by the fascist regime to die in Russia, I can tell you what fascism is and what is not and I can tell you we never thought it meant "government that hurts people" like nazism is not just "people who wear swastikas", if you use it that way, you are wrong. My grandmother died few moths ago, she was from 1922 and escaped from the fascists on on…

That might be what it used to mean, but it certainly does not mean that now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#"Fascist"_as_a_pejorat.... You can call it wrong all you want, but the use of the word has been diluted enough that the meaning that you seek is not people believe when they use it.

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#306

Post by saagarjha »

jfk13 wrote: post #68
koolba wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn straight. Never pay the Dangeld.

For the benefit of any who may not know the reference: http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_danegeld.htm

> A.D. 980-1016

Would you happen to know what this refers to?

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#307

Post by saagarjha »

noobermin wrote: post #54
jacquesm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely what is going on. You can see that dynamic at work here on HN on a daily basis.

I have apologized before on HN and people vote it up, so no I do not see it. It feels much more like people just dig in their heels due to selfish reasons.

I've had apologies in response to corrections be downvoted sometimes. But certainly much less frequently than on Reddit: there, if you apologize, prepare for your original comment and apology to be buried in downvotes.

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#308

Post by tomcooks »

asjw wrote: post #284
tomcooks wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't yell in public, usually How do I know you're certainly not from Southern Europe?)

Unfortunately for you I am exactly from southern Europe, from Rome in Italy to be precise. I think you should visit here, I would show you how much noise people from other countries make, especially Americans. I'm sure you made it as a joke and I don't mind it, but this stereotypes must stop, for a simple reason: there is more to Europe than jokes about southerners. We simply spend more time outside in the open becau…

Anche io, era una battuta - saluti!

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#309

Post by jfk13 »

saagarjha wrote: post #306
jfk13 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the benefit of any who may not know the reference: http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_danegeld.htm

> A.D. 980-1016 Would you happen to know what this refers to?

Those years in English history.

[edit: E.g see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_activity_in_the_British...]

Re: De-escalating social media conflict

#310

Post by mistermann »

ImaCake wrote: post #153
pabs3 wrote: post #140

This reminded me of Polis: https://pol.is/ https://github.com/pol-is/ Taiwan use it for their multi-stakeholder decision making to find points of agreement. Their application of it to the Uber vs Taxis situation was quite interesting. https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/135-q-a-session-with-min... https://blog.pol.is/pol-is-in-taiwan-da7570d372b5 https://blog.pol.is/uber-responds-to-vtaiwans-coherent-blend...

That is excellent. Tools like this get us close to the kind of granular democracy that our ancestors could only dream of.

An imperfect system for granular democracy could be built fairly easily, or bolted onto an existing system (Facebook has the largest global membership I'd think).

There's nothing stopping anyone from building one (other than maybe reasonable fear of being suicided if it gets too much traction, etc), yet I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who's tried. It's so obviously useful that the lack of attempts almost seems like a glitch in The Matrix.

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