If someone sees the phrase "Black Hat" and immediately thinks of negative stereotypes about black people, I really feel like they're the one with unconscious bias that needs to be broken down.
Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
11–20 of 108 posts
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#12I'm white so I can only postulate from other experiences where I can actually relate.
I think the question of "black hat" may in fact be offensive is valid criticism of our culture using "black" to be on the opposite side of a spectrum compared to white; where humans think the white side is possibly noble while the black side deserves some form of contempt.
I think it's a red herring to think about other combinations of words having "black" before the following word and where no negative feeling exists from it. Example: black swan
Should people care? IDK
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#13It's clear that some of the language we use needed to be changed, the previously used terms for primary and secondary hard drives are an obvious example.
It seems to me that the notions related to black and white have broader cultural associations though. Light and dark or day and night have long been associated with good and bad. White similarly has associations with good and innocence hence the use for wedding dresses. I'm not convinced that we can easily rid ourselves of these deep rooted notions.
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#14My understanding is that the terms “black hat” and “white hat” stem from Western movies where the villains and heroes would typically wear black and white hats, respectively. I’m not aware of a racial association, but perhaps I just don’t know about it?
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#15It's clear that some of the language we use needed to be changed, the previously used terms for primary and secondary hard drives are an obvious example. It seems to me that the notions related to black and white have broader cultural associations though. Light and dark or day and night have long been associated with good and bad. White similarly has associations with good and innocence hence the use for wedding dres…
You're still giving the idea too much credit, I think. Black is just a color. The attitude that all black-colored things are intrinsically associated with black people is itself bizarre and problematic.
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#16Does this sudden upswell in irrelevant language policing not seem like some kind of coordinated op to discredit BLM? I don’t question that real people fall for it, but considering how wildly successful it’s been at distracting from material demands, like ending police violence, and how much the media has embraced these stories while ignoring ongoing protests, has me a little tinfoily...
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#17Someone please explain to me how labeling the word 'black' as offensive represents some kind of social progress. It reminds me of that joke from The Office where Michael acts like the term "Mexican" is problematic.
If there is a real problem here I am genuinely happy to hear about it and try to understand. I would love to see more diversity in computer science and I think the entire industry would benefit. But it sure feels like some rich white engineer taking advantage of a social movement to broadcast their own virtue.
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#18My understanding is that the terms “black hat” and “white hat” stem from Western movies where the villains and heroes would typically wear black and white hats, respectively. I’m not aware of a racial association, but perhaps I just don’t know about it?
There isn’t and it is indeed comes from westerns, tho this predates what most people would consider the classical / spaghetti western era and has its origins in early black and white and silent films.
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#19"> Discussions about the topic started late last night after David Kleidermacher[1], VP of Engineering at Google, and in charge of Android Security and the Google Play Store, withdrew from a scheduled talk he was set to give in August at the Black Hat USA 2020 security conference." it's usually entitled white people who feel immediately offended by this. With entitled I mean, finished university working at a top posi…
Whether the term "black hat" perpetuates racial prejudices or not (I'm unconvinced), I think this kind of comment has the potential to take the whole thread down the wrong path. It asserts (without evidence) that no working-class Black people care about this¹, then argues that the author is "no doubt nevertheless wrong", and then quotes a work of fiction without any explanation of why the analogy is apt. Why is it that every time there's a discussion about language like this people try to shut it down with hyperbolic comparisons to totalitarianism rather than actually engaging? We can have these kinds of discussions while also pushing companies to put their money where their mouth is.
¹ Could it be instead that when working-class Black people complain about this they don't get national press?
Re: Infosec community disagrees with changing 'black hat' term
#20It is offensive because the word "black" in the phrase has negative connotation, right? If so, the stance Google engineer took was not progressive enough. I suggest a purge with rigorous examination on at least the following phrases on top of my mind: black cat black money black sheep black frost black market black humor black plague black widow black monday black ops black hand black death black magic black propagan…
And I don't understand the downvote. The Google justice fighter didn't ask to rename "black hat" because of negative connotation? If it is about negative connotation, why is it wrong to examine all phrases, especially the ones like "black market" and "black hand"?