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Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

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Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#91
post #7

This is sad, not so much because of the lack of code coming from this world class programmer, but because coding is such fun, and Torvalds isn't having fun programming, else he'd be doing it. I'm closing in on forty years of coding and still get a kick out of it. I'd still be doing it if I weren't getting paid for it. But my skills are at best, uh, modest compared to Linus. I'd think that doing a thing so much better…

In a way though, he's still coding, just at a different level of abstraction. Metaphorically, he used to generate bricks himself, then add them to his castle. Now people bring him bricks and he choses the ones he likes and which to discard. So at the end of the day, perhaps this is still a castle of his design. meh?

This is the typical trade off of management. You surrender low level control for higher level control and the ability to get more done overall (since you’re coordinating the labor of dozens of people).

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#92

> commit messages to me are almost as important as the code change itself This is high on my list of code craftsmanship points. It's very difficult to explain to young programmers who have never worked on an old code base how valuable this is when done well. In fact, often you hear complaints about how a code base "is crap", but more often than not I'd wager this is just a result of the context at the time not being…

I write detailed commit messages for every single commit I make(even though commits would be squashed on merges), I write detailed PR descriptions that included before/after screenshots in multiple resolutions whenever relevant. Never once did I have any indication that someone took their time to read descriptions or commit messages.

In my previous job, I received some feedback from my manager that some people complained about code quality of my work, I was dumbfounded, I have no problem with being criticised, but I at least wanted to be able to learn from it and adapt. I went back through every single PR I did at the company and found little to no comments and it made me feel personally attacked with very little evidence. I then went on my peers PRs and see what I could learn from them, most PRs included highly non-descriptive commit messages and descriptions often only included a link to a JIRA ticket which most of the time was only visible to their direct team members and not me. From that I took the position of being more demanding on not just code quality during reviews but also descriptions, I didn't manage to influence a single developer to improve documenting efforts. That was a major reason why I eventually left the company.

I continue to be a believer in taking your time to write good commit messages, I have yet to collect dividends from it however.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#93
> "in the end, my job is to say no. Somebody has to be able to say no to people."

This is funny to me, because I feel like Linux got ahead over BSD specifically because it had a more accepting policy in the beginning.

I think this says something important about project maturity and lifecycle. BSD was already a "well established" system by the time the Linux kernel appeared, and as such had more gatekeeping to meet their standards.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#94
This is not good. It's key to keep your hands practicing. A person needs feedback from objective reality and not subjective reality (people).

This will hurt the platform short term and long term.

I wonder why he's not coding? Maybe his ego is too big and hence sensitive?

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#95
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding is fun but for me collaborative development has stopped being fun. People can be rude, biased, and it seems there is always someone with 50 questions or a concern who sucks the life right out of it.

This is what I don't like about open source, it seems to encourage these sort of behaviours.

This happens in proprietary projects too, if you have a dev big ego then he will complain all the time for various trivial issue and can make you dread pushing a change because you know the guy will complain about something and push some pattern he read from some book a month ago

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#96

> So commit messages to me are almost as important as the code change itself. Why commit messages rather than code comments?

A commit message will always be associated with a line of code until that line changes. A code comment may or may not be updated when the code changes.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#97

> commit messages to me are almost as important as the code change itself This is high on my list of code craftsmanship points. It's very difficult to explain to young programmers who have never worked on an old code base how valuable this is when done well. In fact, often you hear complaints about how a code base "is crap", but more often than not I'd wager this is just a result of the context at the time not being…

I feel like all of my kernel commits are 50:1 ratio of commit message explaining the bug vs lines of code changed. Each one feels like it's own blog post. One of these days I plan to do a talk on kernel war stories. So many WTF bugs over the years.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#98
post #49

> commit messages to me are almost as important as the code change itself This is high on my list of code craftsmanship points. It's very difficult to explain to young programmers who have never worked on an old code base how valuable this is when done well. In fact, often you hear complaints about how a code base "is crap", but more often than not I'd wager this is just a result of the context at the time not being…

> about how a code base "is crap" Translation: "Not written in the particular arbitrary style that I'm used to", of course if it were written in that persons preferred style another arbitrarily selected novice would call the result crap. I've found this to be almost universally true especially when the claim is given forcefully but not immediately backed up with a litany of actual user-impacting serious problems. Thi…

>> about how a code base "is crap" > Translation: "Not written in the particular arbitrary style that I'm used to" > I've found this to be almost universally true especially when the claim is given forcefully but not immediately backed up with a litany of actual user-impacting serious problems.

There's certain code smells that most experienced developers are going to identify that would be almost universally considered bad. Things like poor variable/method/class names, use of magic values, duplicated logic, high coupling, and lack of unit tests.

None of these have immediate user-impacting problems, and arguing that's the only thing that matters is very short-sighted.

All of these issues will slowly degrade a codebase over the long term -- as the requirements change, new developers start working on the code, and bugs compound other bugs -- and the user impact will be slower delivery and lower quality. Eventually the code will get to a point where the only save is a major rewrite which causes even slower delivery and higher risk of regression in both features and bugs.

Writing good variable names at the time the code is created is significantly easier than fixing it months later. Writing the code in a way that can be unit tested is easier up front (and sometimes impossible later, without a rewrite and all the dangers that go with that).

There's also a big difference between a code base that's maintained by the same focused person (or small group) for a long time, vs being one of several code bases maintained by a team of people (who may change over time). In the former you can get away with things you can't in the latter case, and moderately or highly successful small projects tend to shift to the latter, and are the ones people will call crap code bases despite their commercial or user-facing success.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#99
post #7

This is sad, not so much because of the lack of code coming from this world class programmer, but because coding is such fun, and Torvalds isn't having fun programming, else he'd be doing it. I'm closing in on forty years of coding and still get a kick out of it. I'd still be doing it if I weren't getting paid for it. But my skills are at best, uh, modest compared to Linus. I'd think that doing a thing so much better…

He may not be one of the top ten monthly contributors to the kernel by measure of lines of code or number of commits anymore, but he still is writing patches for the kernel, reviewing, and suggesting diffs people actually use.

Re: Linus Torvalds: 'I Do No Coding Any More'

#100
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Head of Engineering with 15 years of experience here. If found that when we starting using Github flow, with pull-requests and etc, commit messages stopped really matter, in favour of PR descriptions. Plus when you use "squash" strategy, and use PR description as commit message, history looks great. When you look at commit history through Github tooling, all PR ids turned into links, and it is very easy watch for the…

Azure devops also allows you to squash commits, I don't think this is Github specific. I do however agree with squashing commits in PRs being really nice (unless you want to branch out from a branch that gets squashed, then it sucks)

If you squash commits in a PR down to a single commit, then doesn't that result in a commit that makes a lot of changes that makes it harder to pinpoint a bug or revert without conficts?

A lot of features take more than a single logical commit to implement, so it makes sense to have multiple logical commits associated with a feature update. Squashing them down to a single commit makes it harder to review in my opinion.

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