Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt that is true. SV crowd may be loud but they aren't the majority on HN. Here's how I would group HN based on income, what keywords make them click and demography. 1. Old system admins, FOSS lovers , and retired due to age folks. Around median income. Keywords - vim, Emacs, firefox, awk, unions, inequality, privacy, new tech bad, linux, open source projects, go, haiku, history, and against-big-tech. 2. Fresh co…
Median by what bar? Global, Silicon Valley, relative to their local area?
De-escalating social media conflict
241–250 of 350 posts
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#242From my time on twitter, it definitely seems to me that the algorithm is designed to show the most conflict and vitriol possible. I don't really have friends who use Twitter; I'm mostly looking at accounts with thousands of followers. When I click on a tweet from Trump, I mostly see left-wing people attacking him, but when I click on a tweet from Hillary or AOC, I mostly see Trumpers attacking them. Every damn time. I know that that is not an accurate portrayal of the overall responses. I know Trump gets a fuckload of praise for just like taking a dump on the keyboard. So the algorithm is not showing me tweets I'll like/agree with, it's showing me discord, anger, and hatred.
I recently came across this tweet from Megan Amram, a comedian I follow: https://twitter.com/meganamram/status/1273446578926219265 in which she posts a letter of apology for some recently-surfaced offensive tweets from years ago. If you notice, most of the responses are not accepting her apology at all. I was not aware of any of this until seeing this tweet, but just from reading this letter, they do seem to have a point. Several points.
I think that one takeaway from this is that in your proposal, the offending tweeter just hits an "I'm sorry" button and that's it, which is fine if they just said Mario isn't Italian. But if a politician denigrates an entire race or accidentally tweets a dickpic he meant to dm to an underage girl...well actually there's just no response for that--but you know, if it's a famous person saying something unacceptable, then really there is a need for some explanation, repentance, and at least their own words.
Also, I think in such instances, their followers/the public has a right to respond. With more than just hitting a forgive button. Perhaps shutting down replies but allowing people to retweet with comment would be okay.
I think the thing that's missing here is celebrities/politicians/corporate people/etc. versus the little guy. Here's another example.
I once got into a bit of a heated thing with Jameela Jamil. It was late at night, I'm a random nobody with 500 followers (and only because I was a small-town reporter briefly) and more than a little buzz on, and I reply to an international celebrity's tweet. This is already super long, so I'll just say I think one word I used was misleading but it wasn't hurtful or out of line or anything. Never in a million years would I have expected to be in my pajamas alone in my apartment at midnight having a tense back-and-forth with this woman whose attractiveness was a running joke in a popular prime-time TV show. It wasn't long before I apologized, and then she said that we should both delete our tweets now "to avoid you getting piled upon" and immediately deleted hers. But she strategically left up the tweet about deleting the exchange, so then a flock of admirers, having no idea what had occurred, came to praise her for what a saint she was for doing that for what must have been some horrible evil troll.
The point is that running afoul of a woman put on a pedestal by 1.1 M people on Twitter could have been pure hell for me. I'm mentally ill (trauma issues and such) and experience debilitating shame on a daily basis, and I should not have been drinking, so a tweet storm of judgment and hatred could have actually caused a serious crisis.
In conclusion: I love any idea of helping people to be more caring, to reduce the vitriol, ugliness, and cruelty of online social interaction, but I think your plan is kind of missing the bigger picture, and also assumes that the problem is only the humans. You guys are the hackers here, but I am quite certain that twitter is designed to promote the hating, the dramatic, the denigrating, so that people have to keep coming back to show those idiots what big idiots they are, and to prove how right you are.
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt that is true. SV crowd may be loud but they aren't the majority on HN. Here's how I would group HN based on income, what keywords make them click and demography. 1. Old system admins, FOSS lovers , and retired due to age folks. Around median income. Keywords - vim, Emacs, firefox, awk, unions, inequality, privacy, new tech bad, linux, open source projects, go, haiku, history, and against-big-tech. 2. Fresh co…
I feel like you omitted an obvious category; devs who don't work in SV
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#244Forgiveness. Rather than encourage better behaviours of those targeted by the mob, it would be better to encourage better behaviours of the mob itself. Forgiveness is absent in every social media or comment section and yet it's one of the crucial ways we get along with people. Having others visibly but perhaps silently forgive another would allow social proof that its okay to forgive this perceived offender. Forgiven…
The author goes into that in the next section of the article. Forgiveness starts with an apology.
So, we should start by not assuming that. Especially when large numbers of people agree with us.
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using elite as a term of derision is rather silly anyway. Who else would you want running the country than the most skilled and accomplished?
People who have my interests in mind.
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#246For example stop shadow banning people without warnings, make dead posts always visible but with disabled comments, unless vouched for, make moderation visible, I would like to know why something disappeared, create public spaces to resolve disputes between moderators and users: it's easy to misunderstand something when you are from 1% SV and the other person is from a developing country, for example, moderators are wrong too, hiding mistakes is not de-escalation.
Last but not least, changing the rules around "you're posting too fast" I share my public network connection (and public IP) with tens of other people and usually can't comment because it says I'm posting too fast.
Someone could be very frustrated by this behavior and become increasingly angry, this is not good de-escalation either.
I've never seen an "I've made a mistake" here on HN for example
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#247Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#248Forgiveness. Rather than encourage better behaviours of those targeted by the mob, it would be better to encourage better behaviours of the mob itself. Forgiveness is absent in every social media or comment section and yet it's one of the crucial ways we get along with people. Having others visibly but perhaps silently forgive another would allow social proof that its okay to forgive this perceived offender. Forgiven…
There is no way that something that is not enforceable will succeed though. Plus forgiveness works only on then forgiver side, nothing stop others to keep doing what they are doing after you forgave them. I would argue that the main reason we get along is laws, not forgiveness. Any society has written (laws) and unwritten (social rules) norms that regulate the interactions between members. People don't yell in public…
How do I know you're certainly not from Southern Europe?)
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no way that something that is not enforceable will succeed though. Plus forgiveness works only on then forgiver side, nothing stop others to keep doing what they are doing after you forgave them. I would argue that the main reason we get along is laws, not forgiveness. Any society has written (laws) and unwritten (social rules) norms that regulate the interactions between members. People don't yell in public…
> People don't yell in public, usually How do I know you're certainly not from Southern Europe?)
Maybe it's about stereotypes still very strong against southern Europeans?
Re: De-escalating social media conflict
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there's anyone out there who wants to earn money from advertising there are two words you need to be aware of: "BRAND SAFETY" No well known advertiser wants their brand associated with something unpopular or toxic. This is why YouTube is demonetising any video that mentions Covid-19. YouTube themselves technically probably don't care, but brand safety conscious advertisers certainly do, and so YouTube must too. Th…
> No well known advertiser wants their brand associated with something unpopular or toxic. That's pre-historic thinking. No reasonable long-term user of Social Media would think that a Frozen ad showing next to some BLM/white supremacist content means that Disney endorses violence/racism. It just means that you've liked Frozen (or similar things) before. The dinosaurs will die out. They'll be replaced by social-media…
There are a lot of unreasonable people out there. There are also people who get a kick out of causing a scene. All it takes is one Buzzfeed (or whomever...) article about this exact situation to make other advertisers run to the hills.
It's what YouTube's Adpocalypse was all about.