The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement? • Hacker News Board

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#21

Post by snypher » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #16

The whole world has watched on as crowds of leftists have looted, attacked property, chanted death threats, beaten and even killed people for a month straight. The same ideology captured a part of a city, set up an "autonomous zone" with its own police force who themselves shot and killed a kid recently. And yet the Atlantic, and recently the BBC, want us to worry about some fringe group who've collectively done noth…

If a highly polarized comment such is this is willing to group everybody involved in protests into the 'left', then perhaps accept my anecdotal story. I have a few close friends in the 'boogaloo' movement and I honestly believe they might be one energy drink away from killing someone. They don't really have their own ideology, but are driven by highly polarizing comments they read online.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#22

Post by fallingfrog » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #16

The whole world has watched on as crowds of leftists have looted, attacked property, chanted death threats, beaten and even killed people for a month straight. The same ideology captured a part of a city, set up an "autonomous zone" with its own police force who themselves shot and killed a kid recently. And yet the Atlantic, and recently the BBC, want us to worry about some fringe group who've collectively done noth…

Leftists have done no such thing, instead what has happened is that peaceful protesters, even while in the middle of a candlelight vigil or while playing violin music, have been attacked by literal jackbooted thugs and beaten and shot with rubber bullets. If you are so confused by watching Fox News that you are unable to see actual uniformed authoritarian thugs in the streets and recognize them for what they are, as opposed to millions upon millions of ordinary people fighting against tremendous odds for basic dignity, then you need to just take a break from watching tv and maybe attend one of those protests to see what actually is going on.

The United States has a greater prison population per capita than any other country in the world, by a huge margin. The police seize more property every year than the sum total of all theft and burglary. And the levels of police violence we experience should shock you.

And if you think that the people fighting back are the problem, then what makes you believe that if this were East Germany, you wouldn’t be one of the ones supporting the Stasi? What makes you think that if you were living in North Korea that you wouldn’t be a whole hearted supporter of Kim Jong Il? If you were Russian, you would support Putin, if Turkish, you would support Erdogan, because in every country Authoritarianism is the same.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#23

Post by ForHackernews » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #7

stickfigure wrote: post #6

This article, written from the perspective of someone who clearly "gets up close" with that particular scene, is far more interesting: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-move... TL;DR: It's about as coherent as you would imagine for something that self-organized on 4chan.

Also see: The Meme-Fueled Rise of a Dangerous, Far-Right Militia [1] and The Boogaloo Tipping Point [2]. [1] - https://www.wired.com/story/boogaloo-movement-protests [2] - https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/ameri...

> and The Boogaloo Tipping Point[2].

> [2] - https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/07/ameri....

Literally the article you're commenting on. :)

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#24

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

fallingfrog wrote: post #22

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #16

The whole world has watched on as crowds of leftists have looted, attacked property, chanted death threats, beaten and even killed people for a month straight. The same ideology captured a part of a city, set up an "autonomous zone" with its own police force who themselves shot and killed a kid recently. And yet the Atlantic, and recently the BBC, want us to worry about some fringe group who've collectively done noth…

Leftists have done no such thing, instead what has happened is that peaceful protesters, even while in the middle of a candlelight vigil or while playing violin music, have been attacked by literal jackbooted thugs and beaten and shot with rubber bullets. If you are so confused by watching Fox News that you are unable to see actual uniformed authoritarian thugs in the streets and recognize them for what they are, as…

>And the levels of police violence we experience should shock you.

The US is an incredibly violent place, comparatively speaking, so it's not entirely surprising that it has a comparatively violent police force.

Is it right? Doesn't feel so, but violence begets violence.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#25

Post by m0zg » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

davidlumley wrote: post #5

skrebbel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? This is the first time I hear about the "boogaloo" thing

Robert Evans and Jason Wilson have a pretty good overview here: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-move...

"If there was ever a time for bois to _stand in solidarity_ ..."

Emphasis is mine. That phrase is used almost exclusively by far leftists, and comes from Marxism/Leninism (haven never actually read any of it, the vast majority of leftists do not know where the phrase comes from).

It could be that this exact phrasing is used on purpose, actually, as a form of trolling IRL to appeal to the far left types and try to provoke violence against the government (which will eventually blow back pretty hard - patience is wearing thin already, even in ultra-liberal places like Portland or Seattle).

I still can't really imagine, however, that the overwhelmingly pro-police conservatives could advocate shooting cops. This seems like far left, "tear down the system" shit to me. "The world is about to change its foundation. We are nothing, let us be all." The Russian translation, BTW, literally translates as "We will destroy the world of violence to its foundation, and then, we will build our new world, those who were nothing will be all".

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#26

Post by ForHackernews » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #9

davidlumley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Evans and Jason Wilson have a pretty good overview here: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-move...

[flagged]

The author of this Atlantic piece (dismissed above as "so far detached from reality") makes the exact same observation:

> The boogaloo groups disagree when it comes to racism. Some members are white supremacists. Others compare the movement to the left’s campaign against police brutality. Many boogaloo memes are focused on police overreach, equating the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives and FBI sieges at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Texas, in the ’90s with the recent high-profile police killings of Black Americans.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#27

Post by ForHackernews » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #9

davidlumley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Evans and Jason Wilson have a pretty good overview here: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-move...

[flagged]

Can you explain what you mean by "folkish"? I googled and got very little except this wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_movement but it seems to be only based on a literal translation from German.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#28

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

snypher wrote: post #21

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #16

The whole world has watched on as crowds of leftists have looted, attacked property, chanted death threats, beaten and even killed people for a month straight. The same ideology captured a part of a city, set up an "autonomous zone" with its own police force who themselves shot and killed a kid recently. And yet the Atlantic, and recently the BBC, want us to worry about some fringe group who've collectively done noth…

If a highly polarized comment such is this is willing to group everybody involved in protests into the 'left', then perhaps accept my anecdotal story. I have a few close friends in the 'boogaloo' movement and I honestly believe they might be one energy drink away from killing someone. They don't really have their own ideology, but are driven by highly polarizing comments they read online.

Sounds like you should make the authorities aware of your concerns, if you haven't already.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#29

Post by ForHackernews » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #15

TechBro8615 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get confused when they can’t fit a movement (which, incidentally, this really isn’t) into a box on the left or right.

But he tries his best to tie it to the "right" anyway, whatever that means nowadays. Conservatives shooting police? Give me a break.

Timothy McVeigh bombed a federal building. It sounds like you're engaging in a "no true scotsman" argument if you're claiming that nobody associated with the political right uses violence against the state.

Re: The Boogaloo: when does a meme become a terrorist movement?

#30

Post by drewcoo » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 9:55 PM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #24

fallingfrog wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leftists have done no such thing, instead what has happened is that peaceful protesters, even while in the middle of a candlelight vigil or while playing violin music, have been attacked by literal jackbooted thugs and beaten and shot with rubber bullets. If you are so confused by watching Fox News that you are unable to see actual uniformed authoritarian thugs in the streets and recognize them for what they are, as…

>And the levels of police violence we experience should shock you. The US is an incredibly violent place, comparatively speaking, so it's not entirely surprising that it has a comparatively violent police force. Is it right? Doesn't feel so, but violence begets violence.

Somehow police involvement seems to turn "peaceful protests" into "violent riots" when most if not all of the violence we see in any situation is committed by the police. I don't think "beget" means what you think it does.