Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking • Hacker News Board

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#101

Post by catalogia » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #40

fiblye wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve lived in some really crappy places in the US, but the only place I’ve often seen and experienced people committing obvious crimes in broad daylight was Europe. It was pretty weird having someone struggle to unzip my backpack while walking down the street. I bound the zippers with a lock and they couldn’t get in, but I guess they didn’t notice because they really fought to get it open. Seeing obvious pickpockets…

I personally think it is influenced by differences in the types of organized crime we have. In the US, gangs and similar organizations generally don't bother with organizing petty crime like swiping electronics. They're more focused on drugs, prostitution, etc. In Europe, though, that's not the case [1]. [1] https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-trends/crime-a...

I'm quite certain human trafficking and drug smuggling occur in Europe too.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/10/some-6000-people-a-yea...

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#102

Post by fzeroracer » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #98

fzeroracer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Studies seem to indicate that around that many people admitted to or have drove drunk in America for example. Does that mean drinking and driving laws are bad?

Drunk driving had to be banned because it's just too dangerous. It had to be eradicated at all costs even despite many people violating this law. On the other hand there's no indication that texting while walking is more dangerous than walking while drunk. Walking is a low-risk activity which doesn't require a license and people routinely do it while being under an influence.

I mean sure, but that wasn't your original argument. Your original argument was that if it affects 12% of people, then it's a bad law. We've now demonstrated that reducing things down like that doesn't work.

There's an argument to be made that texting while walking can be dangerous because if you're sharing a small space with cyclists or others then you're potentially leaving yourself open to colliding with them. And ultimately the cost to fix this problem is low and unobtrusive (ie just step aside).

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#103

Post by Talanes » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #36

fiblye wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve lived in some really crappy places in the US, but the only place I’ve often seen and experienced people committing obvious crimes in broad daylight was Europe. It was pretty weird having someone struggle to unzip my backpack while walking down the street. I bound the zippers with a lock and they couldn’t get in, but I guess they didn’t notice because they really fought to get it open. Seeing obvious pickpockets…

I suppose it could be cultural in some way. One also wonders if it's a reflection of the situation with (especially) urban police departments and maybe gun ownership more broadly. If you know that snatching a laptop or handbag could leave you beaten, tased, or shot that's probably something of a disincentive even for not so bright petty thieves.

The guns could go either way. If someone starts mugging you in the US, there's a very real possibility a gun shows up if you try and fight back.

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#104

Post by TuringNYC » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

andor wrote: post #81

jrockway wrote: post #39

My dream is that one day, everyone will see the imaginary lines down the sidewalk that I do. Keep to the right, just like you're driving, and even someone texting while walking won't run into. Sadly, these lines are imaginary and while people tend to keep right, don't take it very seriously. A deeper issue is how much of the space between buildings is dedicated to private vehicles. When the sidewalk is 6 feet wide an…

Where to walk is also a cultural thing. In many places in Asia, groups of people don't form lanes, but walk "through" each other. A bit like how in some places there is less of a reliance on traffic rules, instead people watch out for each other more. Friends have told me that in India you can just cross busy streets by foot and cars will let you pass. If you're from India, please chime in ;-) Here in Germany many wo…

>> Where to walk is also a cultural thing.

In NYC (especially in certain parts of NYC of all the places I've been) it is not only a cultural thing but a power-cultural thing. Some people "expect" others to move out of their way, often taking extra space on a sideways or purposefully walking so you need to bunch up against a wall (or jump temporarily into the road.) I've even had someone scold me (while I had right of way on the right side) for not being more courteous.

You can only imagine the sort of behaviors some of these people exhibit in their offices when there is a real hierarchy or power dynamic.

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#105

Post by abdulhaq » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #39

My dream is that one day, everyone will see the imaginary lines down the sidewalk that I do. Keep to the right, just like you're driving, and even someone texting while walking won't run into. Sadly, these lines are imaginary and while people tend to keep right, don't take it very seriously. A deeper issue is how much of the space between buildings is dedicated to private vehicles. When the sidewalk is 6 feet wide an…

If a child, woman or old person is coming the other way then I take the side nearest to the traffic to protect them

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#106

Post by Talanes » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #102

Grue3 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drunk driving had to be banned because it's just too dangerous. It had to be eradicated at all costs even despite many people violating this law. On the other hand there's no indication that texting while walking is more dangerous than walking while drunk. Walking is a low-risk activity which doesn't require a license and people routinely do it while being under an influence.

I mean sure, but that wasn't your original argument. Your original argument was that if it affects 12% of people, then it's a bad law. We've now demonstrated that reducing things down like that doesn't work. There's an argument to be made that texting while walking can be dangerous because if you're sharing a small space with cyclists or others then you're potentially leaving yourself open to colliding with them. And…

Their original argument was it's a MAJOR INDICATION of a bad law. Which is to say that if you're law is going to be broken by double-digit percentages of the population, there needs to be a solid argument as to WHY. A real counter-example would need to be a law that is widely broken, has no demonstrable benefit, and is still somehow a good law. Which is tautologically impossible, criminalizing people for no benefit is inherently bad lawmaking.

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#107

Post by thatoneuser » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #26

bartread wrote: post #10

In general I find people using their phones whilst walking to be a nuisance, but I'm still not particularly in favour of this. There are at least two legitimate use cases that don't cause too many problems: 1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). 2. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll often use e…

>1. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset). There's no indication this bans audio calls, given it specifically calls out smart phones I'd wager that's not their intent. >2. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll often use either Google or Apple Maps to set up directions before I start walking. I'll the…

"So be respectful and step out of the flow of foot traffic to check it?"

You say this on Americas birthday of all days?

I'm joking, but dude come on. You're not allowed to use GPS while walking? How uncoordinated would a person have to be to not be able to do that? If it's that difficult, people need to be walking more so they don't have to think to do it successfully.

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#108

Post by iso8859-1 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

yamakadi wrote: post #6

afarviral wrote: post #2

Will this be effective without some form of punishment as a deterent?

There are quite a few rules and local laws in Japan that don’t carry any punishment or, indeed, aren’t even enforced but are still followed. Making it law in this case is more of a nudge than anything else. Honestly, it’s much more scary here to be stared down by a group old people than the police.

Just curious, what happens when the old people come after you? Is it because they could be yakuza?

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#109

Post by prerok » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #70

catalogia wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe in Japan, people walk on the left side.

They drive on the left side because they walk on the left side. They say the origin for left-hand traffic in Japan comes from the Edo period where samurai, who wore their swords on the left side, would walk on the left side of the road to avoid clashing swords with each other.

Left hand side vs right hand side has a really complicated history. A lot of Europe was left hand side first as well, although I just learned from Wikipedia that that might be myth:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-_and_right-hand_traffic

Re: Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking

#110

Post by pasabagi » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 8:30 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #100

andor wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where to walk is also a cultural thing. In many places in Asia, groups of people don't form lanes, but walk "through" each other. A bit like how in some places there is less of a reliance on traffic rules, instead people watch out for each other more. Friends have told me that in India you can just cross busy streets by foot and cars will let you pass. If you're from India, please chime in ;-) Here in Germany many wo…

> Here in Germany many would stop at the last possible moment just to make it clear you broke the rules. > If I could pick a skill for everyone out in traffic, I'd definitely choose empathy and patience over seeing imaginary lines. As someone from Bangladesh, I couldn’t disagree more. Give me rule following Germans any day of the week.

It's an odd kind of rule following though, that includes driving at seventy kilometers an hour down a narrow street just because it's permitted, or roaring past a cyclist with a kid on the bike just because that's also legal.

I don't know if my native country (UK) has unusually good drivers, or if the germans are unusually bad, but my feeling is that german drivers are very good at following rules, and also quite good at killing pedestrians and crashing.

PS: just checked it up on wikipedia, and the data half-heartedly supports my position, depending on what metric you think is relevant. The German death rate from road traffic is relatively low, but the 'road fatality per kilometer' is relatively high. So essentially, when germans do drive, they frequently kill people, but thankfully, they don't do so much driving as other nations do.