Live data from Hacker News

Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

theconversation.com

141–150 of 212 posts

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#141

Don't want to be political on HN but I see lot of parallels between now and then. A plague effected region, ruled by conservative parties, opposing science and logic in the name of religion or freedom. persecution of people who either look or do something different from their own. Printing press helped in spreading both lies and truth. Now a days, mainstream media and social media is being used to spread all kinds of…

>>persecution of people who either look or do something different from their own.

Who is being persecuted now?

The Cancel Culture is much more a modern corollary to witch hunts than anything conservatives are doing.

Conservatives exhibit witch-hunting tendencies to some extent, in relation to liberals, where they promote unhinged conspiracy theories about them trying to subjucate the masses.

But these conservatism inspired forms of persecution are much less pronounced than something like Cancel Culture, as they are not being perpetrated by people who control the commanding heights of the cultural landscape.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#142
I'm struck by how the description of witch conventions matches the description of "elite pedovores" that the Qanon conspiracy people promote:

"horrific assemblies where witches gathered and worshiped demons, had orgies, ate murdered babies and performed other abominable acts"

The Qanon people are laughably inept, gullible and the thought leaders are probably grifters, but still, remarkable convergence between the witch cons described above and "hollywood elite" that keep children in tunnels underneath central park, killing these "tunnel tots" in horrible ways to harvest adrenochrome for use as youth potionsl

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#143

I'm struck by how the description of witch conventions matches the description of "elite pedovores" that the Qanon conspiracy people promote: "horrific assemblies where witches gathered and worshiped demons, had orgies, ate murdered babies and performed other abominable acts" The Qanon people are laughably inept, gullible and the thought leaders are probably grifters, but still, remarkable convergence between the wit…

I don’t think this is coincidence. Even without invoking Jung, it’s easy to observe that the spiritual beliefs and cultural prejudices we have now are of one continuous piece with the notions people had centuries ago. This makes the QAnon promulgators even more sinister, because they are tapping into fables and dark legends in order to further a specific political agenda, and a destructive one at that.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#144

Don't want to be political on HN but I see lot of parallels between now and then. A plague effected region, ruled by conservative parties, opposing science and logic in the name of religion or freedom. persecution of people who either look or do something different from their own. Printing press helped in spreading both lies and truth. Now a days, mainstream media and social media is being used to spread all kinds of…

>>persecution of people who either look or do something different from their own. Who is being persecuted now? The Cancel Culture is much more a modern corollary to witch hunts than anything conservatives are doing. Conservatives exhibit witch-hunting tendencies to some extent, in relation to liberals, where they promote unhinged conspiracy theories about them trying to subjucate the masses. But these conservatism in…

Ascribing the status of a capital noun to “cancel culture” is something reactionaries have been doing to try to paint all of their (many) ideological foes into the same category. The use of this term is an effort to distract from the fact that the vast majority of the celebrities who have been “cancelled” have actually victimized others or in other ways taken actions that were offensive or worse. In short, the only people who believe in a monolithic “Cancel Culture” are those who have spent too much time absorbing right wing talking points.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#145

I'm struck by how the description of witch conventions matches the description of "elite pedovores" that the Qanon conspiracy people promote: "horrific assemblies where witches gathered and worshiped demons, had orgies, ate murdered babies and performed other abominable acts" The Qanon people are laughably inept, gullible and the thought leaders are probably grifters, but still, remarkable convergence between the wit…

> I'm struck by how the description of witch conventions matches the description of "elite pedovores" that the Qanon conspiracy people promote:

Both the medieval fear of witches and the modern fear of "Hollywood elites" have their roots in anti-semitism. There's a reason witches were often portrayed with giant hook noses, after all. Judaism has often been negatively correlated with occult elitism, academia (see the actual origins of the term "cultural marxism"), Hollywood and left-wing politics. Hillary Clinton drinking the blood of babies is just a modern retelling of the ancient belief that Jews secretly did the same.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really trying to cover for them. I'm pointing out that it wouldn't have changed anything. I remember very well how it was like back in January. People had so little trust in China (and frankly a lot of it was racism) that they saw Wuhan, a city the size of NYC, being locked down, and that was really bad for us. As far as people being aware of the screw-up, as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. What's i…

This is just misdirection. > that it wouldn't have changed anything Perhaps. Justify that. I might even agree, but still, justify that. > and frankly a lot of it was racism It is not. Anti-chinese-government attitude is not related to anti-chinese-people racism. You're trying to comflate the two so you can dismiss it as just racism. It isn't. > The popular narrative right now is that if China didn't fuck up we wouldn…

The first Chinese doctor, that was censored, was in late December. Meanwhile, French doctors saw cases with ground-glass lung occlusions unexplained by other illnesses (in other words, exactly what was detected late December in Wuhan), in mid November : http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200520-scans-show-french-patie...

And old blood tests were found to be positive in France dating from December.

Since no doctor in China was able to detect this illness before late December, and it was without a shadow of a doubt in Europe by mid December and probably even by mid November, we know without a shadow of a doubt that not delaying the release of the info via censoring the doctor for over a week before receiving the sample from the national laboratory made absolutely no difference at all. Even if they completely shut their borders as soon as the doctors had even a hint of a new disease, we would have likely seen exactly the same result.

As far as I'm concerned, sure China made a mistake by temporarily covering up the disease. But that didn't matter, at that was likely part of the calculus by Chinese authorities - do we release the information now, and risk panic over what might not be a very contagious virus or even much of an issue at all, or do we let the doctor speak about it on social media? It is very likely that they thought that it would be too late if the disease was highly contagious, and if it was weakly contagious that the risk of a false positive warranted the possible lost time. Indeed, it's not like they muzzled the doctor then went to twiddle their thumbs, they were re-analyzing the pathogens and sending them to state labs then eventually took the decision to do a surprise lockdown.

Now, as a citizen I would always rather have the information and be free of censorship. But as far as it went, the muzzling in China was without much consequence. Because it did not and could not have consequences similar to the bad decisions made by our governments. And I don't mean just BoJo, Trump or Bolsonaro. Almost all Western countries were guilty of making irresponsible recommendations that went directly against observations in China. For example, the Canadian health ministry told us that there is almost no risk, that you should continue to use public transport without worrying, to hug people, and that masks are ineffective and will make you sicker even though we had evidence to the contrary for years. Unlike in China, there was no real doubt.

So no, China muzzling a doctor for a few weeks is absolutely not comparable to the failings of our government. It was inhumane, but it did not have bad consequences to an extent comparable to those of the vast majority of Western countries.

We should condemn it of course, but to paint it as equivalent to the very materially relevant catastrophies by our governments when the impact it had is completely negligible in comparison, and when they were much more understandable, is borderline politically motivated misdirection by politicians that want to deflect blame.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#147

Bailey's book he mentions here is called 'Origins of the witches sabbath'. The idea that satanic witchcraft was invented by mediaeval authorities is preposterous IMO. Occult practices go back to ancient Egypt and have been practiced in multiple civilizations as white, grey or black magic respectively. Black magic is what everyone obsesses over (attempts to use supernatural powers or magic for evil and selfish purpose…

> The idea that satanic witchcraft was invented by mediaeval authorities is preposterous IMO.

spot on

> with a desire for populations to conform to dogmatic religions and drop ancient customs and beliefs

or, to stop manipulative and cultic human trafficking / extortion / blackmail rings dressed up as 'religion' because 'my culture'

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#149
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plenty of people are throwing around inflated or manufactured accusations of racism Such as? > There have been a string a highly dubious rape accusations in the press. In many cases, gross exaggeration or outright fabrication of the claims has been proven Such as? Are we back to finding the worst possible examples of a cause on twitter and using it to discredit the whole cause, just like McCarthyism used one or two…

There was a recent case of a Karen receiving mob justice to the point people began harassing the law firm her husband runs (granted she also works there), affecting their livelihood. We don’t want to get to a point in society where your character flaws destroy your life. Just the other day, an out of context video embarrassed a supposed Karen on the front page of Reddit. We later learned the situation was more comple…

"There was a recent case of a Karen receiving mob justice to the point people began harassing the law firm her husband runs (granted she also works there), affecting their livelihood. We don’t want to get to a point in society where your character flaws destroy your life."

To be clear, this was after it was filmed that the couple was pointing guns at peaceful protestors who were protesting on the street. The woman in particular had her finger on the trigger and was pointing it at black people walking by. (EDIT: I don't know if you're familiar with gun handling, but this is considered extremely poor "trigger discipline", which is a term describing how to handle and hold a gun safely. This is comparable to driving drunk in its reckless endangerment. One should never point their gun at a person unless they intend to shoot that person. One should never put their finger on the trigger of their gun unless they intend to fire that gun. This woman, in violating both, is expressing her intent to shoot people.)

"#MeToo had several examples of people’s career being thrown out for offenses that were basically round objects being pushed into a square hole (Aziz Ansari, Al Franken, there were a few more)."

Aziz Ansari totally, 100% owned up to not recognizing how his fame affected the social dynamics in which he now functioned and how that in turn affects consent. He apologized and his career is ongoing.

Al Fraken took photos of himself groping a female soldier while she slept in her uniform, so there's definitive proof he was doing these things. He was in a position of power where he could access women and he chose to have photos taken of him groping people who are serving their country.

I see no round objects being pushed into square holes, here? What should be done with Al Franken, who groped soldiers in their sleep?

(EDIT: I should also note that character flaws ruin lives all the time. Someone who is more prone to recklessness or thrill seeking can get themselves or others killed. Someone who is more prone to addiction becomes addicted to a life-ruining dependency. Someone who is too arrogant can ruin their professional network. Someone who is too complacent in a setting where stuff can be made out of date quickly can swiftly find themselves out of work. I don't take it to be a large leap that someone with the character flaws of "threatens to kill innocent bystanders" and "gropes women in their sleep" might not also be negative in their lives.)

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#150
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s seems a rather peculiar definition of capitalism, if it emerged so late.

> It’s seems a rather peculiar definition of capitalism, if it emerged so late. It's really not; historians, anthropologists, sociologists, and philosophers generally point to a few key features of capitalism, and can date it quite well. Federici draws from that argument.

Why would philosophers have a say in this?

But point is, that question is far from settled. Especially if you consider the key features being the free market and private property, then capitalism goes far into BCE.

Post reply on HN