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Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

uk.reuters.com

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Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#221

Post by benhurmarcel »

js2 wrote: post #140

I wish the Safari content blocking API allowed cookies to be blocked. I'd block cookies for 99% of sites I visit, allowing them only for the handful of sites to which I login. I'd suggest Safari could even make cookies require getting user permission, the same way location access needs to be granted. "Allow, allow for 24 hours, deny." It could default deny except for sites to which it has a saved password which could…

The best way of working I found for cookies is to automatically delete them a short period of time after the website is closed. And keep a whitelist for trusted websites you want to stay connected to.

It's trivial on desktop using an extension [1], but not yet on iOS.

[1] https://github.com/Lusito/forget-me-not

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#222

Post by hellofunk »

maccard wrote: post #124
hellofunk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google search is infinitely more useful I can definitely see how it could be more useful, but I don’t agree that the actual factor of this increase in productivity is infinite. Maybe a factor of 3 to 5.

I thought it was fairly clear that I was being hyperbolic. I don't see how you would decide what that factor actually is, but to me, anonymised results across the population of gogoele search are often going to be useless, so if the addition of any metadata gives them any use whatsoever, then it's infinitely useful than a completely useless query. That said, you're arguing semantics about the relative worth of the re…

I appreciate your rather lengthy rebuttal to my rather trivial retort.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#223

Post by banads »

gquiniou wrote: post #162
banads wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the ad industry can disappear overnight, and I don’t think life would get worse without it If you're concerned about extreme materialism and the effect it has on the environment and mental health, then it seems life would not get worse, it would get better.

I'd love to believe we would all be better if there was no advertising but it looks like our entire civilization is based on always producing and selling more stuff. What happens when we stop that ?

Perhaps a paradigm shift from a "thing" oriented society to a "person" oriented society.

"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered" -MLK

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#224

Post by smnthermes »

orangecat wrote: post #215
scarface74 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which product comes with “artificial limitations” that force you to give Apple more money?

For iPhones, Lightning rather than USB-C, no headphone jacks, and inability to use software outside of the app store. For Macs, lack of post-purchase expandability, and it's getting gradually more difficult to run non-store software. Yes, you can come up with arguments why these things are actually good for users. But coincidentally the workarounds always end up with more revenue for Apple: AirPods, 30% commission on…

> and inability to use software outside of the app store

Google wants browsers to be like OSes, because they can't directly compete with desktop OSes. This concept is incompatible with security and privacy, so Google's interests are more harmful (they fund Mozilla).

Granular permissions don't solve the privacy issue, because denying them contributes to fingerprinting. Also, JIT compilers violate W^X.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#225

Post by deadmutex »

scarface74 wrote: post #83
jjcon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As has been said before - it is kinda hilarious to see people suggest Apple is privacy minded for marketing purposes because 5-7 years ago when they were privacy minded people said it would be a huge competitive disadvantage because users didn’t care.

And it would put Apple behind with AI/ML. They are behind, but they are catching up. Google has to do everything on the server. Most Android devices have slow outdated hardware so you can’t do too much on the device.

> Google has to do everything on the server. Most Android devices have slow outdated hardware so you can’t do too much on the device.

The other side of the coin is that you can bring features to more people. People that do not have the money to buy the expensive iPhones, etc.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#226

Post by f1refly »

scarface74 wrote: post #164
nitrogen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cheap, unpolished products where you are constantly being tracked and getting advertised to This is a bit of an old meme, it reminds me of the PC vs Mac wars back in the pre-Jobs-return era. Or Ford vs Chevy. It's really impressive how strongly companies have convinces us to associate our identities with their brands.

Android is still a mess of an ecosystem where most OEMs bundle their own crapware, most don’t provide updates for more than a couple of years if at all. I had the displeasure of using Google Search without an ad block for the first time in awhile. God it’s awful. Not to mention AMP pages being the default for many popular new sites when linking from Google on mobile. GoogleTV/Android TV/Chromecast are all worse than…

And along come lineage and f-droid, saving you from whatever google are the chinese try to throw at you.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#227

Post by f1refly »

scarface74 wrote: post #216
orangecat wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For iPhones, Lightning rather than USB-C, no headphone jacks, and inability to use software outside of the app store. For Macs, lack of post-purchase expandability, and it's getting gradually more difficult to run non-store software. Yes, you can come up with arguments why these things are actually good for users. But coincidentally the workarounds always end up with more revenue for Apple: AirPods, 30% commission on…

- you can buy extra lightning cables from anywhere at about the same price as usb c cables. - most modern high end cell phones aren’t coming with headphone jacks anymore. All iPhones come with a headphones - most high end laptops also don’t have internal expandability anymore. -you also don’t have to buy AirPods. You can buy any Bluetooth headphones - Google also charges the same 30% for apps. - the default is allow…

- but then you have lightning cables and usb c cables. Yet another connector that's incompatible with everything else!

- [citation needed]. High end android phones with headphone do exist, so you definitely have the choice to support those vendors.

- most

- bluetooth

- f-droid, saving the day yet again.

- the default. You can just enable that without having to do anything shady at all.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#228

Post by account42 »

duckfruit wrote: post #191
crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

Unfortunately the ubiquitous cookie consent warnings reek of design-by-government-committe suffers greatly for it. In theory, what could possibly be wrong with explicitly warning users that they're being tracked with a hidden piece of data stored on their machines? However, in practice this has just led to a proliferation of popups on every website on earth. I'd bet that pretty much everyone just annoyingly clicks th…

> I wish that the powers that be could see that the law has not had its intended effect and has instead just led to a degraded web experience for everyone.

Wether it was the intended effect or not, it has made it very clear just how scummy advertising companies are.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#229

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

bad_user wrote: post #118
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, that should be a sign that you know that you currently aren't obtaining informed consent, and should be thankful that Apple is saving you from the massive GDPR fines you should be getting (if only enforcement would actually happen).

These companies already know they aren't getting consent from users. GDPR's requirements are pretty clear in this regard and personalisation for advertising can't be a legitimate interest. Every business in the advertising community has seeked legal counseling regarding GDPR, make no mistake about it. They simply hope that they'll be ignored for long enough. > if only enforcement would actually happen It does happen.…

GDPR is over two years old now, and most major web sites are still showing non-compliant dialogs and sharing your data with dozens of trackers.

Have there been any fines against either the web sites or the ad/tracking services they use? (IIRC the Google fines were for Android, not ads/web site tracking).

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