Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism • Hacker News Board

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#21

Post by Taek » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

ogurechny wrote: post #20

There's a stereotype that witch hunts were “mass hysteria” (as Wikipedia calls them) affecting stupid backwards people (another common stereotype) or stupid believers (a stereotype with a militant atheism flavour). In these cases, we would see more witch hunts the earlier the age is or the stronger the church is. People weren't much more stupid than people today are. Moreover, it's a fairly recent era, I'd even say t…

I mean we only need to look back as far as the red scare to find a modern example of witch-hunting being used for political gain.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#22

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

What is often missed, the mix of sexes of murdered "witches" depends on the country. 20% of murdered victims were male, in some countries way above 50% (not to belittle female victims in any way).

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#23

Post by vmception » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

ipsum2 wrote: post #11

vmception wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those articles are more interesting than OP's article. When I research a lot of wealthy families I frequently find their level of comfort not possible to replicate because it is something considered impropriety today. Taking advantage of an imbalance in the socioeconomic order that was promptly fixed as soon as anybody noticed.

Could you give an example of that level of comfort? Servants were more common back then, but not sure what else.

For example, the family that was able to exploit the socioeconomic order to pick up those land plots from people indicted for witchcraft probably still owns those land plots, but new people will not be able to use the same tactic to obtain land now.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#24

Post by chrisco255 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:10 AM UTC

twsttest wrote: post #17

claudeganon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t a refutation of Federici’s argument. Her’s is specifically that the conditions of European feudalism created an emergent communalism that was then subjugated through witch trials and their mythology in service to the new, Capitalist ordering. She doesn’t argue that gendered forms of subjugation have no prior context in history. And whether or not the changes in women’s social/economic conditions were “temp…

The witch hunt as a means of enforcing female subservience in the context of an emergent capitalism is a just-so story that is driven more by a desire to demonize capitalism than anything else. Gender roles have remained pretty static throughout European history so it doesn't make sense to pin down witch paranoia on a changing of gender roles or attitudes that never changed in the first place. The better explanation…

In my reading of history, hysteria is often driven by plagues or famines. Look at the Mayan culture of human sacrifice. It's very similar to witch hunting. I think when a formerly thriving society is struck by a series of disasters that threaten the social order, false enemies get created as scapegoats. Either it's an angry god or a witch's curse.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#25

Post by aaron695 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:17 AM UTC

This still happens, a recent case of satanic witchcraft trials (2020 Australia) -

At the time it was called as what it was by logical people, the exact same pattern of hysteria has been seen before, but they still had their lives ruined.

https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/circus-abuse-case-was-t...

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#26

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #21

ogurechny wrote: post #20

There's a stereotype that witch hunts were “mass hysteria” (as Wikipedia calls them) affecting stupid backwards people (another common stereotype) or stupid believers (a stereotype with a militant atheism flavour). In these cases, we would see more witch hunts the earlier the age is or the stronger the church is. People weren't much more stupid than people today are. Moreover, it's a fairly recent era, I'd even say t…

I mean we only need to look back as far as the red scare to find a modern example of witch-hunting being used for political gain.

Or the 80's and the U.S Satanism scare to find actual witch-hunting.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#27

Post by blackrock » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:21 AM UTC

Fun thought. What if in the future, witchcraft and sorcery and magic, is rediscovered. And it comes to rule the land, and the people.

But in actuality, sorcery is really just applied computer science.

Like, in the future, some engineer manages to tap into the quantum realm, which allows for all kinds of mystical apparitions to manifest, but instead, it’s really just another quantum artifact. But our limited understanding of the quantum probability reality, makes it seem like magic.

And all the hocus pocus incantations, are simply voice recognized commands, that triggers a quantum computer system, to activate some quantum subsystem functionality.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#28

Post by ogurechny » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:28 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #21

ogurechny wrote: post #20

There's a stereotype that witch hunts were “mass hysteria” (as Wikipedia calls them) affecting stupid backwards people (another common stereotype) or stupid believers (a stereotype with a militant atheism flavour). In these cases, we would see more witch hunts the earlier the age is or the stronger the church is. People weren't much more stupid than people today are. Moreover, it's a fairly recent era, I'd even say t…

I mean we only need to look back as far as the red scare to find a modern example of witch-hunting being used for political gain.

Do you mean the ongoing or the previous one?

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#29

Post by Mirioron » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

ogurechny wrote: post #20

There's a stereotype that witch hunts were “mass hysteria” (as Wikipedia calls them) affecting stupid backwards people (another common stereotype) or stupid believers (a stereotype with a militant atheism flavour). In these cases, we would see more witch hunts the earlier the age is or the stronger the church is. People weren't much more stupid than people today are. Moreover, it's a fairly recent era, I'd even say t…

I think the "stupid backwards people" refers to the people that went along with it. There might be people guiding others, but if nobody believed that witches exist then this wouldn't work. It's more a case of blind belief in authority figures.

For this same reason witch-hunts can easily happen today. The conservative kid that was smeared as a racist while standing around smiling, despite there being no proof, is an example of very similar behavior by people.

Re: Invention of satanic witchcraft by medieval authorities was met with skepticism

#30

Post by klyrs » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:34 AM UTC

Taek wrote: post #21

ogurechny wrote: post #20

There's a stereotype that witch hunts were “mass hysteria” (as Wikipedia calls them) affecting stupid backwards people (another common stereotype) or stupid believers (a stereotype with a militant atheism flavour). In these cases, we would see more witch hunts the earlier the age is or the stronger the church is. People weren't much more stupid than people today are. Moreover, it's a fairly recent era, I'd even say t…

I mean we only need to look back as far as the red scare to find a modern example of witch-hunting being used for political gain.

Communism and socialism are still curse words among the right to this very day. The authoritarian left is a boogeyman; the libertarian left want nothing to do with that shit either but good luck convincing somebody that you're not a tankie.