Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present • Hacker News Board

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#71

Post by philangist » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:11 AM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #70

vgchh wrote: post #41

For universities to fully crumble and education to become significantly cheaper, in addition to all the advancements that have occurred in last decade, I believe we need a credible way to certify students online. Imagine if someone sitting in Tibet or slums of Bombay could prove to Googles of the world that he/she (and not some hired help) successfully completed a highly ranked test online, it could be transformative…

It would be transformational if firms would be okay with some of their team working in a different timezone. It's hard to collaborate when you can only meet in the evening for one worker, and early morning the other. I don't know if there's any logistical solution to this.

Replace Tibet with Bolivia and the point still stands.

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#72

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:19 AM UTC

Not everyone is in a position to do it. And I don't know what the position of universities in deferring will be at this point. And obviously gap year options that are constructive/interesting are way limited at the moment.

But I'd have to seriously consider if it makes sense to enter a university as a freshman in September. Especially given a non-trivial possibility of things blowing up mid-semester with all sorts of attendant costs.

Obviously a really really tough decision. And this will probably result in a lot of students not entering or completing college which, despite some of the common wisdom in tech, will probably lead to some pretty severe downgrades to lifetime career opportunities and income to many.

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#73

Post by throwaway9870 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:20 AM UTC

felipemnoa wrote: post #59

gbronner wrote: post #18

This is looking more and more like an extinction event for academia. Elite institutions can charge whatever they want for their brand name and selectivity, and for the environment of other equally motivated high potential students. Other schools combine a school with a resort/cruise ship experience. Insofar as the school is no better than a bunch of videos, and the resort is mostly shut down, so long as employers don…

Nowhere in your comment I see you mention that elite institutions are mainly research institutions that do teaching kind of as a side job. In fact, several of the best researchers working at universities are horrible teachers. However, if you want to be at the cutting edge of your field then that is where is at.

On what do you base that opinion? I did a MS and PHD at Stanford and was blown away by how good the profs were and how hard they actually tried to teach well. I don't agree at all with your thinking. Perhaps you need to be a bit less general and more specific about what school you are referring to?

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#74

Post by copperx » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

throwaway9870 wrote: post #73

felipemnoa wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere in your comment I see you mention that elite institutions are mainly research institutions that do teaching kind of as a side job. In fact, several of the best researchers working at universities are horrible teachers. However, if you want to be at the cutting edge of your field then that is where is at.

On what do you base that opinion? I did a MS and PHD at Stanford and was blown away by how good the profs were and how hard they actually tried to teach well. I don't agree at all with your thinking. Perhaps you need to be a bit less general and more specific about what school you are referring to?

I didn't attend an elite school, but OP might be referring to undergrad education at places such as UC Berkeley?

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#75

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #42

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened with my family. It was especially bad because earning $150k total for a household near an expensive urban area leads to purchasing power basically the same as a family with $65k household income in suburbia or small towns. Without adjusting parents income for cost of living (factors the kids in question have no control over), it’s totally unfair. This has a lot to do with “last place aversion” - the peo…

Maybe go to a cheaper school?

Whether it’s right or not, prestige and notoriety of a college count for a huge amount in employment and earnings. Why should my family not get that chance if they worked just as hard to earn it?

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#76

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

mikem170 wrote: post #51

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened with my family. It was especially bad because earning $150k total for a household near an expensive urban area leads to purchasing power basically the same as a family with $65k household income in suburbia or small towns. Without adjusting parents income for cost of living (factors the kids in question have no control over), it’s totally unfair. This has a lot to do with “last place aversion” - the peo…

I usually think of the opposite affect, someone making double money in San Fransisco pays the same price for what they order on amazon as someone working and living in a cheaper market. Also cars, airline tickets, vacations, etc. Cuts both ways, I guess. My two cents: I'd blame San Fransisco, they are the ones with the weird housing market and shouldn't make others subsidize things around their propped up property pr…

I don’t think you’re right about that. Groceries, supplies, movie tickets, restaurants, fuel, transit, medical & dental resources, rent, and so on are all much more expensive in the city. The fraction of things you get on Amazon or through other means that allows paying a low competitive nationwide price is pretty tiny and doesn’t really offer any meaningful advantage to city dwellers.

But on the flipside, state and federal taxes collected from city dwellers do heavily subsidize much more expensive infrastructure and operations costs in suburban and rural areas.

So rural residents get safe roads, remote snow removal, remote power lines, heavy freight supply shipping, equal prices for US mail shipping, school systems and so on, despite not having their own tax base capable of actually sustaining all the costs.

Basically, middle class and upper middle class urban workers subsidize pretty much everybody else. Any richer and you have access to tax avoidance resources and lobbying, and poorer and you consume much more in government resources than you pay in, especially in rural areas.

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#77

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:43 AM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #75

scarface74 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe go to a cheaper school?

Whether it’s right or not, prestige and notoriety of a college count for a huge amount in employment and earnings. Why should my family not get that chance if they worked just as hard to earn it?

Not really. Most studies show that what college you go to only matters for a few professions.

Way back when I graduated, 3 years in, I was making just as much as people that went to prestigious schools for my same area (computer science) and I paid less for one year of college than they paid for four - and no debt.

If I were graduating today and wanted to work in Big Tech, I would spend six months to a year preparing for white board interviews.

Especially in tech. What college you go to only makes a slight difference and that’s only for your first job. Being able to do algorithms and data structures is the great equalizer for Big Tech.

https://www.collegechoice.net/will-what-college-i-attend-mat...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-elite-colleges-lead-to-highe...

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#78

Post by snazz » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:45 AM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #76

mikem170 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually think of the opposite affect, someone making double money in San Fransisco pays the same price for what they order on amazon as someone working and living in a cheaper market. Also cars, airline tickets, vacations, etc. Cuts both ways, I guess. My two cents: I'd blame San Fransisco, they are the ones with the weird housing market and shouldn't make others subsidize things around their propped up property pr…

I don’t think you’re right about that. Groceries, supplies, movie tickets, restaurants, fuel, transit, medical & dental resources, rent, and so on are all much more expensive in the city. The fraction of things you get on Amazon or through other means that allows paying a low competitive nationwide price is pretty tiny and doesn’t really offer any meaningful advantage to city dwellers. But on the flipside, state and…

> I don’t think you’re right about that. Groceries, supplies, movie tickets, restaurants, fuel, transit, medical & dental resources, rent, and so on are all much more expensive in the city. The fraction of things you get on Amazon or through other means that allows paying a low competitive nationwide price is pretty tiny and doesn’t really offer any meaningful advantage to city dwellers.

It's primarily the discretionary, high-tech, and expensive items that are cheaper in a high-cost-of-living place. Want to buy an iPhone or a Tesla or an expensive camera or something like that? Those are all less expensive relative to your income in high-CoL places. Plus, interest rates from savings accounts and many retirement accounts are the same nationwide, meaning that having more total money is advantageous.

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#79

Post by davesque » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:46 AM UTC

As a full-time resident of Boulder, CO (college town), this seems like an impossible situation. I can well imagine that the university here is under heavy pressure from local government to hold classes in the fall. This is because going a semester without all the students/faculty will be disastrous for the town's economy. On the other hand, the increase in coronavirus cases will also be disastrous. I don't have an answer. But, as a person who recently bought their first home in the area, I'm pretty bummed at the prospect of the local economy collapsing.

Re: Colleges are reopening in fall, but many professors won’t be present

#80

Post by analbumcover » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 1:46 AM UTC

mtgp1000 wrote: post #30

This is good. I think the commoditization of college had profound negative effects on society. Historic trust in the academic system was abused in order to, at best, sell degrees to people who were unqualified for them, and at worst, to indoctrinate two generations of children (anything outside of STEM is heavily politically slanted - it's the long march through the institutions that the infamous Weather Underground…

You make a lot of good points here. What is expected of students in University these days is a joke compared to historical standards. Ironic given the more demanding job market expectations.