Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking • Hacker News Board

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#201

Post by longtimegoogler » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #186

longtimegoogler wrote: post #183

I found it a bit ironic that Apple didn't require users to grant permission to its own measurement tool, "because it is engineered to not track users". I don't know the details but I am guess it is still accesses the same numeric id and "trusting" that Apple is doing the right thing behind the scenes, i.e., only storing aggregate information is still required.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. Apple only cares about the data in aggregate. They don’t need to track individual users. An advertiser, on the other hand, wants to know your age, sex, location and what you hard for breakfast.

This is an advertiser tool. It is used by app developers to track their advertising campaigns that lead to app installs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they still break down information by age, sex, and location as long as there are enough anonymous people in each group.

I would argue that this is only "perfectly reasonable" if you think anonymous aggregate logging solutions is a reasonable way to track user behavior, or if you have such trust in Apple to do the right thing, that you are willing to grant them an exception.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#202

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #198

rsynnott wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The story used to be "they are making money on hardware", then when that peaked it became "they are making money on services", The story is still that they're making money on hardware; over 80% of their revenue (and potentially more of their profits; profit margin on the music stuff in particular can't be great).

77% but close enough. https://i0.wp.com/laptopcapri.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05...

Ah, was looking at data for a different quarter. Probably varies during the year, though; I assume hardware share peaks in Q4.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#203

Post by 37eyhdhdeueu » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #161

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

Agreed. We need a standard that forbid websites from making popups and setting cookies if the do not track flag is set - alternatively we need all cookies to be marked as optional or required (per the GDPR) and then browsers can handle what to do with them, including just ignoring them completely.

Are we still pretending GDPR did more than add another layer of inconvenience to the web? Users don't care and when they do it's because they bought into the fear mongering the privacy crowd keeps perpetuating. No products of value are made by these regulations.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#204

Post by oarsinsync » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #193

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

I wonder if there's any person on planet earth who knowingly agreed to desktop notifications from their browser and makes active use of the feature.

Yep. It enables me to receive email notifications and IM notifications.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#205

Post by orangecat » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #80

rubber_duck wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress ? There's money to be made and this looks like posturing and story telling to justify tapping in to another revenue stream on their platform.

This is merely a “strategy credit”. Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff. They can afford to be privacy focused. If you’re okay with cheap, unpolished products where you are constantly being tracked and getting advertised to, buy a Google product. If you want products where you give the company money and they give you stuff - buy Apple.

If you want products where you give the company money and they give you stuff - buy Apple.

The "stuff" tends to come with artificial limitations so that in order to use it effectively I have to give Apple even more money.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#206

Post by twirlock » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

>The top comment is some spook deflecting about "pop-ups."

Hey can you do us a favor and make the world a better place by quitting your job as a professional lie-spreader?

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#207

Post by MintelIE » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

Heh, yeah, it's a pain in the ass. But blame Google and other greedy un-trustworthy mega-corps who data mine.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#208

Post by angott » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #140

I wish the Safari content blocking API allowed cookies to be blocked. I'd block cookies for 99% of sites I visit, allowing them only for the handful of sites to which I login. I'd suggest Safari could even make cookies require getting user permission, the same way location access needs to be granted. "Allow, allow for 24 hours, deny." It could default deny except for sites to which it has a saved password which could…

It already does that! 1Blocker lets you specify a list of websites for which cookies won't be sent in the request headers. So I suppose the API indeed supports this feature.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#209

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #205

scarface74 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is merely a “strategy credit”. Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff. They can afford to be privacy focused. If you’re okay with cheap, unpolished products where you are constantly being tracked and getting advertised to, buy a Google product. If you want products where you give the company money and they give you stuff - buy Apple.

If you want products where you give the company money and they give you stuff - buy Apple. The "stuff" tends to come with artificial limitations so that in order to use it effectively I have to give Apple even more money.

Which product comes with “artificial limitations” that force you to give Apple more money?

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#210

Post by js2 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #173

js2 wrote: post #140

I wish the Safari content blocking API allowed cookies to be blocked. I'd block cookies for 99% of sites I visit, allowing them only for the handful of sites to which I login. I'd suggest Safari could even make cookies require getting user permission, the same way location access needs to be granted. "Allow, allow for 24 hours, deny." It could default deny except for sites to which it has a saved password which could…

Safari started blocking third party cookies by default earlier this year. https://www.engadget.com/2020-03-24-safari-blocks-all-third-... Previously, you had to flip a switch in the settings.

I want to block even first-party cookies. And the third-party cookie logic prevents Fidelity's Full View from working correctly, so I have to disable it to use that feature of their site.