Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking • Hacker News Board

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#191

Post by duckfruit » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

Unfortunately the ubiquitous cookie consent warnings reek of design-by-government-committe suffers greatly for it.

In theory, what could possibly be wrong with explicitly warning users that they're being tracked with a hidden piece of data stored on their machines? However, in practice this has just led to a proliferation of popups on every website on earth. I'd bet that pretty much everyone just annoyingly clicks through whatever button gets them to the content. I wonder how many could even describe what a cookie is, let alone how it affects their privacy. And at the end of a day, people are perfectly willing to give up a little bit of their privacy in exchange for all the services available for free to the general consumer on the web.

I wish that the powers that be could see that the law has not had its intended effect and has instead just led to a degraded web experience for everyone.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#192

Post by thiagocsf » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #159

> The group of European marketing firms said the pop-up warning and the limited ability to customize it still carries “a high risk of user refusal.” Good. Sounds like the warning will work.

My thoughts exactly: refusal is the whole point.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#193

Post by Causality1 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

I wonder if there's any person on planet earth who knowingly agreed to desktop notifications from their browser and makes active use of the feature.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#194

Post by nojito » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #39

It is interesting. Apple is trying to position itself as more privacy friendly suggesting that the tide may be finally turning. It is difficult for me to believe that they would do it without customer demographic suggesting their user base places some value on it.

>Apple is trying to position itself as more privacy friendly suggesting that the tide may be finally turning.

This isn't a recent thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#195

Post by sc11 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #158

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

>Things like cookies, tracking, etc. should be a browser- or OS-wide setting. Asking me individually for every site, for every app, is the absolute worst user experience ever. Sorry but this pattern just has to DIE. We already have that, the Do Not Track header. Advertising companies ignore it because they're not legally obliged to honor it. Reminder that these companies do not care about you or your user experience…

> And we can't rely on the competence of legislators because their answer is always more popups.

The European ePrivacy regulation was meant to make DNT legally binding and enabled by default but it has been stuck in the European Council for about 3 (?) years now due to massive pressure from publishers. It's a real shame because it would improve the situation a lot.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#196

Post by jeroenhd » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

Most popups I've seen are either illegal under the laws they were created for (the full-screen privacy ones) or signs that you should leave the website or app (newsletter ones).

The problem is that instead of stopping their abusive behaviour, tracking companies will make whole ranges of services as hard to use as possible and point towards lawmakers when people complain about them. Their flawed business model has collapsed because privacy has finally gotten attention and they're fighting tooth and nail to keep their awful businesses afloat.

There's a perfect setting in most browsers that the popups can already use, called "do-not-track". However, they don't want to use that because it's too easy to turn it on. So instead of listening to your preference, they will show the popup regardless and follow the rules to the most annoying extent of the law.

Really, people should just stop clicking through these goddamn popups and leave the website when they encounter them. The only way to stop this madness is to take away traffic from websites with shitty practices. This includes those damn notification scripts and those auto-playing videos.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#197

Post by SquareWheel » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

whatsmyusername wrote: post #74

> Sixteen marketing associations, some of which are backed by Facebook Inc (FB.O) and Alphabet Inc’s (GOOGL.O) Google, faulted Apple for not adhering to an ad-industry system for seeking user consent under European privacy rules. Apps will now need to ask for permission twice, increasing the risk users will refuse, the associations argued. DuckerZ in the chat boys. Zero sympathy for ad networks, they're one of the la…

Who is "DuckerZ"?

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#198

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #188

rubber_duck wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff. The story used to be "they are making money on hardware", then when that peaked it became "they are making money on services", once they peak in that market it's going to be "they are monitizing the content delivered through the ecosystem to provide a curated and safe experience" - it's all about showing growth an kee…

> The story used to be "they are making money on hardware", then when that peaked it became "they are making money on services", The story is still that they're making money on hardware; over 80% of their revenue (and potentially more of their profits; profit margin on the music stuff in particular can't be great).

77% but close enough.

https://i0.wp.com/laptopcapri.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05...

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#199

Post by tonyedgecombe » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #39

It is interesting. Apple is trying to position itself as more privacy friendly suggesting that the tide may be finally turning. It is difficult for me to believe that they would do it without customer demographic suggesting their user base places some value on it.

It's interesting to think about it from Google's perspective. How can they respond to it without undermining their whole business model. The answer is they can't.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#200

Post by 37eyhdhdeueu » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

If you use Firefox there's an extension called "I don't care about cookies" that can help cut down on such problems. Leave enduring that sort of nonsense to the Europeans.