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Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

bbc.com

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Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#21

Post by ianai »

chrisco255 wrote: post #16
smallnamespace wrote: post #6

The number of mass animal deaths seems to be greatly increasing in over the last two decades: - Half of all Saiga antelopes (120k) died over a month, 2015 [1] - Recent unexplained dog deaths in Norway, 2019 [2] - The ongoing white nose syndrome epidemic that's ravaging bat populations in North America [3] - Gray whales beaching themselves all along US West Coast, 2019 [4] - Ongoing, mass die-off of about 30% of frog…

The environment has not changed much at all in the past two decades. You spuriously quote a few random cases of sudden death and claim it has been on the uptick but lack the holistic data of the past few hundred years to determine whether that's a true statement or not. The beached whale could be caused by shifts in Earth's geomagnetic field, which whales use to navigate: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/weakening-earths-ma…

We really need to be careful with dismissals such as yours. Compared to the time the grandfather post took to research, process, and write compared to how long it takes you to write a discarding message is trivial but the potential damage is great. Joe Rogan had a great interview with Barbara Freese yesterday on her forthcoming book “industrial strength denial(...)”. She discussed it at length in her interview. Basically, there are centuries of instances of interested parties using rhetoric not dissimilar to yours to deny progress on emancipation of slaves, tobacco laws, coal regulations, radon effects and etc. Its time we all dismiss the trivial dismissals of hard fought/researched truths and force informed, rational discussion.

Link to interview mentioned: https://youtu.be/cP0D2_jhqPU

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#22

Post by coolspot »

melling wrote: post #14
smallnamespace wrote: post #6

The number of mass animal deaths seems to be greatly increasing in over the last two decades: - Half of all Saiga antelopes (120k) died over a month, 2015 [1] - Recent unexplained dog deaths in Norway, 2019 [2] - The ongoing white nose syndrome epidemic that's ravaging bat populations in North America [3] - Gray whales beaching themselves all along US West Coast, 2019 [4] - Ongoing, mass die-off of about 30% of frog…

We look for villains but the real problem is simply humans in general. We do so much damage to the world. Plastic, greenhouse gases, overfishing, etc. to support our way of life. Lots of other examples...We kill millions of birds with our pets, buildings, and green energy We need to find a way to reduce our impact on the planet.

Most logical and somehow most controversial way is to stop human population growth.

All big problems - pollution, deforestation, climate change are caused by having too many people on this planet.

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#24

Post by pvaldes »

j-pb wrote: post #20
melling wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We look for villains but the real problem is simply humans in general. We do so much damage to the world. Plastic, greenhouse gases, overfishing, etc. to support our way of life. Lots of other examples...We kill millions of birds with our pets, buildings, and green energy We need to find a way to reduce our impact on the planet.

"green energy" if you're insinuating that wind power kills birds, that's something you can totally stop worrying about. A single turbine kills as many birds as a cat per year.

Not even in the same league. A cat will not kill bald eagles or herons, a turbine will.

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#26

Post by williamdclt »

coolspot wrote: post #22
melling wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We look for villains but the real problem is simply humans in general. We do so much damage to the world. Plastic, greenhouse gases, overfishing, etc. to support our way of life. Lots of other examples...We kill millions of birds with our pets, buildings, and green energy We need to find a way to reduce our impact on the planet.

Most logical and somehow most controversial way is to stop human population growth. All big problems - pollution, deforestation, climate change are caused by having too many people on this planet.

I don't see how it is "most logical". It seems more logical to me for humans to stop destroying our ecosystem than it is to limit the number of humans that destroy.

Probably the answer is "both" anyway, but even if we divided the number of humans by 2, our impact on the ecosystem would still be crazy high (assuming the impact decreases linearly, which is probably not the case)

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#27

Post by ars »

ianai wrote: post #21
chrisco255 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The environment has not changed much at all in the past two decades. You spuriously quote a few random cases of sudden death and claim it has been on the uptick but lack the holistic data of the past few hundred years to determine whether that's a true statement or not. The beached whale could be caused by shifts in Earth's geomagnetic field, which whales use to navigate: https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/weakening-earths-ma…

We really need to be careful with dismissals such as yours. Compared to the time the grandfather post took to research, process, and write compared to how long it takes you to write a discarding message is trivial but the potential damage is great. Joe Rogan had a great interview with Barbara Freese yesterday on her forthcoming book “industrial strength denial(...)”. She discussed it at length in her interview. Basic…

That post suffers from recentisim. Mass animal die off are not actually new. Unless you find data from at least 100 years ago to compare, you can not draw conclusions.

> Compared to the time the grandfather post took to research, process, and write

Yes, but the only data in the post is what is found online. So while that can be used to draw attention to an issue, you can not use it to describe a trend, or say that things are getting worse.

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#28

Post by rlpb »

smallnamespace wrote: post #6

The number of mass animal deaths seems to be greatly increasing in over the last two decades: - Half of all Saiga antelopes (120k) died over a month, 2015 [1] - Recent unexplained dog deaths in Norway, 2019 [2] - The ongoing white nose syndrome epidemic that's ravaging bat populations in North America [3] - Gray whales beaching themselves all along US West Coast, 2019 [4] - Ongoing, mass die-off of about 30% of frog…

> It seems that the proximate causes for these events are varied, but the sheer pace, magnitude, and number of affected species should hint that this is ultimately caused by downstream impacts of rapid changes in the environment precipitated by climate change.

Precipitated by...huh? That's not a falsifiable statement, and so is not a valid argument. I could replace "downstream impacts ...climate change" in your statement with "5G deployment" or "vaccines" or "black people" and your argument would be no different.

Where's the evidence that these deaths are caused by environmental change, or indeed are linked and have a common cause?

Note that I'm not denying your claim; I'm merely pointing out that without referencing any evidence, it's as good as no claim at all.

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#29

Post by ricardobeat »

ars wrote: post #27
ianai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need to be careful with dismissals such as yours. Compared to the time the grandfather post took to research, process, and write compared to how long it takes you to write a discarding message is trivial but the potential damage is great. Joe Rogan had a great interview with Barbara Freese yesterday on her forthcoming book “industrial strength denial(...)”. She discussed it at length in her interview. Basic…

That post suffers from recentisim. Mass animal die off are not actually new. Unless you find data from at least 100 years ago to compare, you can not draw conclusions. > Compared to the time the grandfather post took to research, process, and write Yes, but the only data in the post is what is found online. So while that can be used to draw attention to an issue, you can not use it to describe a trend, or say that th…

Maybe you'll trust this 2015 article by National Geographic instead, backed by studies spanning the past 70+ years: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/1/150113-mass-d....

Re: Botswana: Lab tests to solve mystery of hundreds of dead elephants

#30

Post by sukilot »

rlpb wrote: post #28
smallnamespace wrote: post #6

The number of mass animal deaths seems to be greatly increasing in over the last two decades: - Half of all Saiga antelopes (120k) died over a month, 2015 [1] - Recent unexplained dog deaths in Norway, 2019 [2] - The ongoing white nose syndrome epidemic that's ravaging bat populations in North America [3] - Gray whales beaching themselves all along US West Coast, 2019 [4] - Ongoing, mass die-off of about 30% of frog…

> It seems that the proximate causes for these events are varied, but the sheer pace, magnitude, and number of affected species should hint that this is ultimately caused by downstream impacts of rapid changes in the environment precipitated by climate change. Precipitated by...huh? That's not a falsifiable statement, and so is not a valid argument. I could replace "downstream impacts ...climate change" in your state…

Previous poster specifically cited increased algae blooms (caused by weather) and offered a mechanism and linked to sources of more information.

Poster might not be correct overall, but the thesis is clear and at least remotely plausible.

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