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Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

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Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#91
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny too because any ad attribution methodology that’s not tracking users is going to suffer so much confounding to render it utterly useless. Of course it will show you Big Lift! but the reality is you could have negative lift and the attribution methodology won’t be capable of detecting it or accounting for necessary confounders to isolate the effect of the ad from other effects. In essence, if you’re not tra…

If it is going to be utterly useless as easily as you claim, then it should be easy for the sixteen advertising agencies to prove that it will be utterly useless and that advertisers should push back against Apple and their new warning.

You have an unfortunate view that the ad attribution business is predicated on rational choices by advertisers.

It’s more similar to investment management business. You could likewise say it’ll be easy for competitors to prove a firm is having bad quarters of portfolio underperformance, yet firms with bad track records consistently keep getting new business. Why is that?

The underlying business proposition is more like consulting and blame protection. You can always fire your ad attribution partner and claim their “number crunching” was bogus to save your own ass. You don’t pay them to give you actionable ad strategy or performance measurement, just like eg the investment board of a pension fund doesn’t hire an investment manager to actually get higher returns.

You pay them to make it look like you, the board member or the ad account manager, did all you could and any failings are down to uncontrollable poor performance of your vendor, which you then look like the good guy for firing, or look like the visionary for jumping ship to sexy AI solutions then jumping ship back to “classic” solutions when the AI solutions predictably don’t work. You do this for a while collecting bonuses and protecting your job, at the massive expense of the pension fund or advertising campaigns you are supposed to oversee, then you quit or get fired and play musical chairs to fail up into the same role at the next place.

In many companies that run advertising, the ultimate choice of what ad spend to pursue is an unbelievably political shitstorm. There are arguments for spending on generic brand awareness (which has no goals related to attribution at all) vs ambitious “creative” ads & extravagance like Super Bowl ads, vs scientific ad experiments on defined cohorts of users.

Nobody knows about (or gives a shit about) actually tracking the performance of all this beyond doing a bunch of headless chicken scrambling around to make some spreadsheets and slide decks to keep a job or argue for a bonus.

To the executives a layer up it’s either a big cocktail party of all the different styles of pursuing ads and business is good and they don’t really care, or else it’s a needless cost center when business is bad and they give grain offerings to the advertising gods to decide what to cut.

But nobody is seriously pursuing quant advertising. That is all just fluff branding. And this play by Apple is more of the same, just branding for professional services through using their anti-competitive moats around iOS.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress ? There's money to be made and this looks like posturing and story telling to justify tapping in to another revenue stream on their platform.

By making it harder to monetize ads? Ok.

By replacing competitors with their own "tracking free" ad tech

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#93
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing themselves into the identity business? By giving it away for free? What kind of business it that? I guess it’s the same as trying to get in the ads business by making ads less valuable?

We are way past the argument that “free” => “no value to business”

Profits are value to business. Profits require revenues.

We are well passed the second internet bubble where Instagram et al can get billion dollar valuations on market share alone. There needs to be a business plan to generate revenues and profits.

So what us Apples business plan for identity? If it’s to add value to iOS and MacOS by providing convenient privacy secure logins to customers, I hardly see that as forcing themselves into the business.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing themselves into the identity business? By giving it away for free? What kind of business it that? I guess it’s the same as trying to get in the ads business by making ads less valuable?

> Forcing themselves into the identity business? By giving it away for free? The price has nothing to do with the "forcing" part, unsure why you are guessing that's what is being referred to. The word "forcing" is clear enough on its own.

“Forcing” only makes sense in the usage by a butt hurt competitor seeking to monopolize the market. For consumers it’s “opening” the market with a superior safer solution.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being agency. You intend to open a bank account, buy a car, etc. “you“ [for the majority definition of ‘you’] had no idea that you were being secretly tracked, and (clutches pearls) you might even object to that. This is lifting the stone that’s been lying in the grass for the last decade or so, and watching all the creepy-crawlers scurry away out of the light, desperate to find somewhere to hide thems…

Yes, by now everyone knows they are being "secretly" tracked since it's been in the news for the last decade. And yet privacy isn't a strong selling point for most people. It sounds like they have spoken and they don't give a damn about it.

I see it as the opposite... the ad industry are specifically worried here that people are going to be given the choice, and they believe that the peoples' choice won't be good for them.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being agency. You intend to open a bank account, buy a car, etc. “you“ [for the majority definition of ‘you’] had no idea that you were being secretly tracked, and (clutches pearls) you might even object to that. This is lifting the stone that’s been lying in the grass for the last decade or so, and watching all the creepy-crawlers scurry away out of the light, desperate to find somewhere to hide thems…

Yes, by now everyone knows they are being "secretly" tracked since it's been in the news for the last decade. And yet privacy isn't a strong selling point for most people. It sounds like they have spoken and they don't give a damn about it.

It sounds like that, but I don't think it's really true. I think that only means that with the previous tradeoffs available, they chose to keep being tracked. No reason not to try something new and maybe they'll choose something different.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress ? There's money to be made and this looks like posturing and story telling to justify tapping in to another revenue stream on their platform.

This is merely a “strategy credit”. Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff. They can afford to be privacy focused. If you’re okay with cheap, unpolished products where you are constantly being tracked and getting advertised to, buy a Google product. If you want products where you give the company money and they give you stuff - buy Apple.

>Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff.

The story used to be "they are making money on hardware", then when that peaked it became "they are making money on services", once they peak in that market it's going to be "they are monitizing the content delivered through the ecosystem to provide a curated and safe experience" - it's all about showing growth an keeping stock prices.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#98
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing themselves into the identity business? By giving it away for free? What kind of business it that? I guess it’s the same as trying to get in the ads business by making ads less valuable?

> I guess it’s the same as trying to get in the ads business by making ads less valuable? If that damage your competitors more than it damages you, might that be of some value? Not saying that’s Apple is doing, just pointing that could be a thing.

It’s easy to see what Apple is doing here it’s what they’ve always been doing increasing privacy protections for their users to add value to their platform and sell more iPhones and Macs.

Apple is shown repeatedly they don’t care about the advertising market and would gladly burn their offerings to the ground if they impeded their privacy efforts one iota.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re doing something and you know users are going to refuse to let you do it if they have the choice, don’t do it. Apple will give them a choice soon enough. I think the statement would be more meaningful with "if they have the choice" removed. Otherwise, you're just arguing in favor of only those with the power to remove choice.

I think you misunderstood what they were saying. How can someone refuse if they don't have choice?

Exactly, the focus should be on avoiding what the user doesn't like, not just avoiding what the user doesn't like if there's a choice involved. If the Apple-made tool referenced in the article were subject to the same choice dialog, what might the result be? The simple presentation of the choice is what picks the winners, not the users' preferences.
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