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The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

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Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#191

Post by tsimionescu »

nate_meurer wrote: post #179
tsimionescu wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IFR for Covid-19 is still not known, but just based on deaths, it is obviously either much more virulent or much more deadly than a seasonal flu. There is no way to look at ~127k deaths in the US for half a year, with no sign of slowing down in summer, and say that it is similar to the flu (which killed ~34k people last year in the US). The comparison to malaria is also interesting. You're absolutely right that t…

> And the assertion that limited restrictions could work as well as lockdowns is an extraordinary claim without any form of evidence. Japan, for example, has so far found success with very limited restrictions. There are other examples. > The only countries that successfully stopped the disease used some combination of timely lockdowns, travel restrictions, ubiquitous mask wearing, large scale testing, and excellent…

I didn't contradict myself, I was referring to 'limited restrictions for the elderly', the parent commenter's recommendation. The parent commenter was also explicitly against widespread mask wearing, and for allowing the disease to spread during summer. Japan has extremely widespread mask wearing, and while lockdown orders were not enforced, there were recommendations for the populace to work from home and avoid going out for the night which were respected on a wide scale, paired with travel restrictions both internally and internationally, and school closure in the cirtical period at the beginning of spring.

Related to targeted measures for the elderly and their success, of course care homes should take all precautions, who would oppose that?? I am saying that it can't be considered enough, and we have seen that it is not enough, for example in Sweden. The fact that there exist care homes in the US that have had few or no COVID-19 deaths is proof of nothing, except of a job well done by those people, and of good luck.

But the elderly don't live only in care homes, and it is not only the elderly who are getting sick and dying. And many more care homes have done a terrible job in keeping their wards safe, becoming hot beds of infection themselves.

> > Limited protections for the elderly have not been shown to work anywhere in the world, so why bother discussing them?

> That's an extremely unhelpful way to approach any complicated subject, especially one of such enormous importance. Thankfully, most healthcare professionals don't indulge is such nonsense

Limited restrictions as the only measure taken against COVID-19 have not worked anywhere in the world, are against almost all medical professionals' recommendations, and aren't even worth discussing. It has been tried by madmen, and it leads to tragedy. This is what the parent was proposing, and this is what I am combating.

Less-than-lockdown restrictions for the entire populace can work, if they are respected on a wide scale. Unfortunately, most of the people who are against lockdowns are also against any such restrictions, imagining instead that they can shift all of the burden on the elderly and sick. Not only is that a heinous attitude, it has also been shown not to work.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#192

Post by mschuetz »

paulcole wrote: post #108
mschuetz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fine, I just wanted to give another perspective why people only read the title and not articles.

That doesn’t give a perspective on why they feel compelled to comment though. This is a discussion of the article not a guess-what-the-article-might’ve-said contest.

Most articles end up being a discussion of only what the title says, and not being able to read the articles is one of the reasons.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#193

Post by mam2 »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #80
icegreentea2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd make a stronger argument by instead of making a military or other things argument, and just make a 'fund other things more' argument. The reason I think you should stay away from pointing fingers, especially at a relatively divisive issue like military or especially aircraft carrier funding is because then you shift a question of "should American be world leading in commercial air travel regulation, pan…

The fact that "military" is a "divisive" issue proves the point of how we got to this point in the first place.

That's a though one to argue. 90% of people in a peaceful country take peace for granted, so their opinion on what should the military do is honestly nonsense.

Anticipating the downvotes: if you think peace is "easy" and are no aware of how much a strong military power is required to hold it you are delusional.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#194

Post by darkerside »

emmelaich wrote: post #184
darkerside wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which was handled before it made its way to the US in any significant capacity. Imagine Trump had taken clear and decisive action against COVID in January.

Hindsight is easy. > Imagine Trump had taken clear and decisive action against COVID in January Like the travel ban, which he announced on Jan 31?

Of course hindsight is easy. Does that mean we shouldn't make use of it?

And yes, like the travel ban, which clearly was the wrong solution for the problem.

I don't blame the Trump administration for failing to predict the future, but I do see that they willfully ignored bad news over and over again and in fact continue to do so even today, which is completely unconscionable.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#195

Post by jonplackett »

hardlianotion wrote: post #43
jonplackett wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This same thing happened here in the UK (with similar results). Scientists scared of being ostracised if they spoke against the government. So they just went along with all the dumb decisions. We also have an group of scientists ‘Sage’ who are meant to be our best minds, who gave similarly useless and inconsistent advice because it was politicised.

What are you relying on for evidence that this happened as you describe?

There was an interview with one of the scientists who laid it all out. He has terminal cancer himself and therefore said he doesn’t care about future access.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#196

Post by severino »

iagovar wrote: post #17
ykevinator wrote: post #2

I hope we do a serious review of the cdc when this is all over. For all the money we give them, they totally failed to "control" the outbreak. It feels like it's devolved into an academic institution and we have enough of those.

IDK the US that well, but if you don't have coercitive power over politicians what can you do. I'm aware that CDC has been criticized for other stuff as well, but in the end they seem to not have that much power. In my country (Spain) it has been a shitshow. Everyone who warned about the upcoming situation was ridiculed and/or insulted in a coordinated effort between government and media. Now the same people is being…

> Everyone who warned about the upcoming situation was ridiculed and/or insulted in a coordinated effort between government and media

By media? Does it mean the Spanish government owns the majority of newspapers and TV stations? That's not the idea I had from Spain.

> I mean, my regional government which is corrupt, and sometimes hilariously inept has done a better job. What the *@^- man.

I wonder how a regional government with no power, as the central government took it from them, could have done a better job at anything.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#197

Post by jamesrom »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #35
jamesrom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without distracting from you central point (which I very much agree with), please read the science around hydroxychloroquine, not the news. It works best taken with Zinc, and early when symptoms first present.

Provide links to that 'science' if you're going to claim it exists, including any corroborating studies.

And another recent study https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-05983-z

> hydroxychloroquine use was associated with decreased in-hospital mortality.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#198

Post by sutterbomb »

oneplane wrote: post #142
sutterbomb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the US is an EXTRAORDINARY large country. It has a population >500x greater than the state of Vermont, a state with 630,000 people.

I wouldn't call it EXTRAORDINARY (especially not all-caps) when you know there are countries like Russia, Canada and China. The only extraordinary thing would be the wealth distribution vs market value of the USA.

In context it should be very easy to see why I phrased things the way I did. I do not personally think there's anything EXTRAORDINARY about US population size OR the budget amounts in question.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#199

Post by hardlianotion »

jonplackett wrote: post #195
hardlianotion wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you relying on for evidence that this happened as you describe?

There was an interview with one of the scientists who laid it all out. He has terminal cancer himself and therefore said he doesn’t care about future access.

If it was in text, can you provide a link to it?

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#200

Post by iagovar »

severino wrote: post #196
iagovar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK the US that well, but if you don't have coercitive power over politicians what can you do. I'm aware that CDC has been criticized for other stuff as well, but in the end they seem to not have that much power. In my country (Spain) it has been a shitshow. Everyone who warned about the upcoming situation was ridiculed and/or insulted in a coordinated effort between government and media. Now the same people is being…

> Everyone who warned about the upcoming situation was ridiculed and/or insulted in a coordinated effort between government and media By media? Does it mean the Spanish government owns the majority of newspapers and TV stations? That's not the idea I had from Spain. > I mean, my regional government which is corrupt, and sometimes hilariously inept has done a better job. What the *@^- man. I wonder how a regional gove…

> By media? Does it mean the Spanish government owns the majority of newspapers and TV stations? That's not the idea I had from Spain.

Well, that's what happend, IDK if that has anything to do with ownership or not, but I mean, the message of the government was followed by media to the inch, with very few exceptions here and there.

> I wonder how a regional government with no power, as the central government took it from them, could have done a better job at anything.

Because before the central government took control they already buyed masks, gloves, respirators and put some protocols in place. In fact later on some of this stuff was sent to Madrid.

Not to mention that there was a lot of arguments between the central government and some regions on how to manage the situation, and some disobedience too.

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