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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#631

Post by prepend »

bronson wrote: post #443
Spivak wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see lots of people on the internet making the 4 year argument, and I have to admit it's a snappy quip, but I don't think the point is made entirely in good faith. I really do see it being flown as a symbol of rural and/or southern pride that is informed by, but largely disconnected from, the civil war other than as a historical symbol that broadly represents an opposition between rural folk and urbanites. I mean it…

> people have been largely unsuccessful in keeping the iconography from becoming a racist dogwhistle The Confederate flag has always been a racist dogwhistle. Right from day 1.

Perhaps, but that’s not my experience. I’ve spent a lot of time in the south and met many people who had the flag on stuff, I knew them quite well and didn’t think they were dog whistling.

The flag, as far as I understood it, was about being a rebel, “don’t tell me what to do” anti-authority.

Maybe my experience is quite different from yours. I never saw a klan rally or anything like that.

I did only buy a “git ‘er done” lighter from a gas station for its redneck kitsch. I didn’t intend to be a racist signal. Comically it’s stuck somewhere and I suspect should my grandkids ever find it in my estate it will be revered as some nazi memorabilia, incorrectly based on my intent.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#632

Post by strombofulous »

arcticfox wrote: post #321
sukilot wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an argument for banning swastikas, not banning anyone who displays a swastika. And before you say "come on, swastikas are pretty extreme", remember the moral panic we just went through when 4chan trolls convinced people that the OK hand sign was a "one-sided version ofna White Power" sign and got people fired from their jobs for making the sign.

> That's an argument for banning swastikas, not banning anyone who displays a swastika. This seems semantic. For example, cheating is banned in many games, and if you cheat, you get banned. Banning cheating and cheaters is effectively the same thing.

This is not the same thing at all. Banning swastikas would mean resetting the decals of a car with swastikas, not preventing the account from using the game license they paid for. Banning cheating means you ban the account of the person who cheated.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#633

Post by freehunter »

linuxftw wrote: post #428
rayiner wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That begs the question. Why did southerners pick the battle flag of the war they fought to preserve slavery as the symbol for "southern identity?"

You could spend some time researching what those people actually think and why they think it. Don't let others speak for them, find out for yourself.

I researched it and turns out it's all about slavery and not states rights since the CSA mandated that all states in the CSA must allow slavery.

I just saved everyone a ton of time there.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#634

Post by freehunter »

catalogia wrote: post #458
jcranmer wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never been to rural NY? The Confederate flag flies all over the place there, and I rather suspect that very few of those flying it are doing so because of Southern heritage.

> Have you never been to rural NY? The Confederate flag flies all over the place there Many times, and I can earnestly say I've never seen that. Nor in rural Pennsylvania for that matter, which I would otherwise characterize as slightly less sophisticated than NY. Are there racists in that region? Certainly. But I can't recall ever seeing somebody in those states flying the confederate flag. I'm sure it's happened be…

I'm from Michigan, the state that gave the Union General Custer and when asked to give one regiment actually supplied seven regiments of men to fight against the CSA. And the Confederate battle flag flies everywhere around the state. It's an absolute travesty of history and it's downright embarrassing.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#636

Post by swayvil »

soraminazuki wrote: post #221

While it's emotionally pleasing to see racists being kicked out of online platforms, another side of me feels wary of these tactics. For starters, being deplatformed from major online players today would have serious consequences. Although it's true that these platforms are "private property," the entire society has become too reliant on them to be seen that way. I think it's dangerous when platforms function like a…

Really? Adding a confederate flag to your car == racist?

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#637

Post by freehunter »

holler wrote: post #496
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I once ran a large online forum and set up a word filter to replace certain phrases with "fluffy bunnies" and other absurdities. It did a remarkable job of improving discourse once the foul-mouthed types realized their hateful messages were being massaged. Really? When I've seen this done, all that happens is you end up the 'approved' word. Everyone knows what it means though. So I guess if all you care about is the…

that doesn't mean everyone else knows though, and it at least detoxifies the conversation to observers

The words "idiot", "retard", and "moron" used to have legitimate scientific meanings (at the time). Now they're used as insults, completely interchangeable with each other.

Turns out it's not the word, it's the intention behind the word. And who gives intention? People. Not words.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#638

Post by iamstupidsimple »

ceejayoz wrote: post #284
kube-system wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of examples of speech laws in the western world that have banned insults. From 1994-2014 the UK had a ban on speech that was "insulting" The UK's Communications Act 2003 section 127 also says: > (1) A person is guilty of an offence if he- > (a) sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing char…

From Wikipedia on the act: > On 19 December 2012, to strike a balance between freedom of speech and criminality, the Director of Public Prosecutions issued interim guidelines, clarifying when social messaging is eligible for criminal prosecution under UK law. Only communications that are credible threats of violence, harassment, or stalking (such as aggressive Internet trolling) which specifically targets an individu…

Then why was this guy[0] sued by the Scottish Government for a joke, offensive as it may be? Prosecution specifically labeled intent to cause offense as the crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Meechan

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#639

Post by 8note »

naasking wrote: post #359
rsynnott wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Microsoft never allowed, say, swastikas. There's no reasonable expectation that you are able to spread racist propaganda in a car racing game (or for that matter in an actual car race; I think those tend to have very strict rules around decoration). I can see an _argument_ that Twitter, say, should be forced to pander to racists. I don't buy that argument, mind you, but I can at least see the thought process…

> There's no reasonable expectation that you are able to spread racist propaganda in a car racing game Merely displaying a flag seems like a pretty generous interpretation of "propaganda". It certainly doesn't fit any definition of which I'm aware. Perhaps there's an argument for banning such symbols, but don't use hyperbole to try and prove your point, you just undermine the legitimacy of this effort.

Flags are very powerful symbols.

Suppose trump took down all the American flags in the whitehouse and replaced them with Russian flag, or if Obama had taken them down and replaced them with the Isis flag.

There's no world in which that would be taken lightly

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#640

Post by tomp »

umvi wrote: post #576
tomp wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everything have to ba racism? Can’t they just be xenophobic? Or maybe nationalist?

Is there a significant difference between being "xenophobic" and "racist"? Seems like semantics...

Well the motivations are completely different. Xenophobia is a pretty normal human condition, and very reasonable as well (“strangers” carry germs, which is being amptly demonstrates right now). It could also be motivated be preservation of culture, nation, etc. - basically same reasoning as makes you prefer your children vs other children, just extended a bit to the whole nation.
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