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Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

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Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#71
post #55

Sad day for me; for a plane geek, frequent traveler, son of immigrants, and someone who has been to the factory (incredible - visit the Everett Boeing facility if you get a chance), this is super nostalgic. The "Queen of the skies" really changed air travel, and I'm a bit sad that they won't be flying much longer. The economics, size and scale of travel were drastically different before the 747. Before the 747, only…

What an interesting factoid, thank you :)

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#73
post #4

I know it's not the most important thing, but I feel that 747s are easily the prettiest passenger airplane in the sky right now. Going to miss the variety they provided at the airport.

Interesting. The 747 is certainly majestic and maybe even elegant. In contrast, many people hate the looks of the A380, but I quite like it. It's not sleek or pretty, but it's airplane-y. Look at the curved wings, the massive vertical fin. It's a huge, bulky, dare I say, voluptuous. Great plane.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#74
post #2

This is really sad. I love both 747 and A380. To me it’s still more comfortable to be in the large plane for a long flight. 4 engines are better than 2.

The fallacy of the A380 was the hub and spoke model.

Airbus thought people wanted to fly from a small airport to a central airport, to transfer to a A380, then fly to the other side of the world, then transfer to a smaller plane to get to their final airport.

Thus, your trip ended up becoming 3 possible transfers!

This is insane that I can’t imagine why the designers didn’t think this through.

And airports had to upgrade their facilities in order to handle the increased weight of the jumbo A380. This was a non-starter to begin with.

Boeing correctly realized that people want a direct point-to-point travel, with no transfers in between. Thus, they won out in the next generation airplanes.

But, whatever happened to those Dreamliners anyways? I don’t hear much about them anymore.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#75

It’s a little sad that we’ve retired the 747, the Concorde, and (almost) the A380. And we haven’t introduced anything cool :(

The Concorde was done in by fuel prices, and because it was a small aircraft. I visited one in a museum and it was claustrophobic. Also nobody should be sorry that elites have to sit on long overseas flights just like we do. The A380 was a boondoggle from the beginning, an attempt to outdo Boeing by having TEH BIGGEREST aircraft on the market. Having to rebuild airports to accommodate it wasn't a good idea. The 747 i…

> I visited one in a museum and it was claustrophobic.

I also got to do a walk through in the Air and Space Museum over a decade ago. It's deinitely a tight space amd the seats were tiny. I'm not terribly tall, about 6 feet, and I had to hunch over to avoid hitting my head.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#76
post #5

The 747 is humanity's greatest achievement. Air travel is the confluence of engineering, policy and governance (the heyday of the FAA/NTSB and how we got to the point where air travel is this safe), and the systems engineering that get aircraft, people, and baggage to so many different places. What the Boeing 747, and only the Boeing 747, has is true artistic value, with a profile evoking Botticelli or Rubens.

> Botticelli or Rubens

??? Surely you mean the A380 there! :-)

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#77
post #36

>>The Covid-19 pandemic threatens to leave their manufacturers scrounging to find buyers for the last jumbos built. This is imply not true. The last 747s built are freighters. Freight demand is at an all time high due to COVID and constraints on supply chians. Even passenger vehicles are being called into freight service (which is far less efficient yet still economical).

That doesn't mean people want to buy those planes right now.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#78
post #28

It’s a little sad that we’ve retired the 747, the Concorde, and (almost) the A380. And we haven’t introduced anything cool :(

I won't weep too many tears for the 747 but the A380 is seriously pleasant to fly on. It will be sad if it doesn't come back post COVID-19.

It didn't make economic sense for most airlines pre-COVID, and I doubt that'll change post-COVID. It was already in rapid decline.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#79
post #22

the 747-8F freighter will continue, so the title is misleading. The era is not over, at a maximum closing the era of jumbo passenger jets. and as points of interest, the hump on the 747 keeps the cockpit out of the way allowing freight to be loaded more easily and completely, and freighters don't mind stopping to refuel (too expensive to carry all that fuel for the whole trip) and that's what makes the 747 continue t…

In the long run, would it be cheaper to build cargo planes that can refuel in midair? That way you don’t overburdened the ground airport system. And eventually, the refueling airplane can become robotic, and fly fully automated also.

Fun idea to think about. FedEx (and many others) refuels at Ted Stevens Anchorage Airport, and it looks like they have 8 refueling pads. Obviously thats a primary function of Ted Stevens and the reason why it has 3 long runways. I dont know how long the refueling stopover is, but the delay cost cant be that bad compared to an efficient, ground-based refueling operation. Then there are other challenges, like a KC-46 (the latest 767 based tanker), can only carry enough fuel to for 3 747-Fs, (or 6 half-fills). Speculating, but these jumbo jets also create so much downdraft causing a trailing plane to fall into an aerodynamic "hole," so that they need a lot of space between planes. The KC-46 costs about $150mm (flyaway cost), plus you have pilot crews, ground crews, etc to maintain them. A robotic system isn't going to look too terribly different, getting a gigantic auxiliary fuel tank up into the air. But hey, solve those problems, you might have something!

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#80
post #2

This is really sad. I love both 747 and A380. To me it’s still more comfortable to be in the large plane for a long flight. 4 engines are better than 2.

The fallacy of the A380 was the hub and spoke model. Airbus thought people wanted to fly from a small airport to a central airport, to transfer to a A380, then fly to the other side of the world, then transfer to a smaller plane to get to their final airport. Thus, your trip ended up becoming 3 possible transfers! This is insane that I can’t imagine why the designers didn’t think this through. And airports had to upg…

> Whatever happened to those Dreamliners?

They're still being made, they work great, etc. The biggest issue for Boeing is that they've hit really steep production costs on them. The idea is that the first planes start out really expensive to make, but you refine your methods as you continue manufacturing them, and eventually break even and start making a profit on each plane sometime in the future. It's taken Boeing much, much longer than expected to start making money on them.

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