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Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

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Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#61

Post by imtringued »

jlcummings wrote: post #52
Tiltowait-- wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Concorde was done in by fuel prices, and because it was a small aircraft. I visited one in a museum and it was claustrophobic. Also nobody should be sorry that elites have to sit on long overseas flights just like we do. The A380 was a boondoggle from the beginning, an attempt to outdo Boeing by having TEH BIGGEREST aircraft on the market. Having to rebuild airports to accommodate it wasn't a good idea. The 747 i…

The B52 first was first rolled out for production use on 18 March 1954. The "...long-rifle of the air age..." -- Nathan Twining. It has not been manufactured since 1962. They are still in active military service, the ones that remain, and continue to see upgrades and evolving mission scope. 100 years of service is feasible. Cost per flying hour of a modern B52: $70,000 [1] 1. https://www.airforcemag.com/article/re-en…

It's very easy to upgrade a strategic bomber. All strategic bombers are prone to interception so the only way to stand out is by having a bigger and modern payload. You can see the same development with tank cannons. Bigger calibers aren't necessary. The Rheinmetall 120mm cannon can be upgraded by simply shooting modern munition.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#62

Post by blackrock »

fsckboy wrote: post #22

the 747-8F freighter will continue, so the title is misleading. The era is not over, at a maximum closing the era of jumbo passenger jets. and as points of interest, the hump on the 747 keeps the cockpit out of the way allowing freight to be loaded more easily and completely, and freighters don't mind stopping to refuel (too expensive to carry all that fuel for the whole trip) and that's what makes the 747 continue t…

In the long run, would it be cheaper to build cargo planes that can refuel in midair?

That way you don’t overburdened the ground airport system. And eventually, the refueling airplane can become robotic, and fly fully automated also.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#63

Post by jedberg »

Such a shame. The best flight I ever took was on an A380. The thing was just so big that turbulence didn't seem to affect it.

Flying on the jumbo jets was always a trip. With Boeing pulling the plug on the 747, it will be long time before anyone makes a double decker again, if ever.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#64

Post by iso8859-1 »

beamatronic wrote: post #59
whatgoodisaroad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly in terms of appearances, I think Antonovs look really nice. Granted, it was rare to see one in a western airport even in the best of times.

Just move to Mountain View, California and you can see it every week

The An-225 goes to California every week? Why?

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#65

Post by FabHK »

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #46
manigandham wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't takeoff/landing cycles on the engines and airframe counteract the fuel savings? EDIT: Specifically pressurization cycles and metal fatigue, since that's how aircraft lifespan is measured.

I wonder if the limiting fact to cargo capacity is weight or volume. If it's weight then perhaps the additional freight offsets those costs rather than saving fuel.

Weight, largely.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#66

Post by kzrdude »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #54
sesuximo wrote: post #23

It’s a little sad that we’ve retired the 747, the Concorde, and (almost) the A380. And we haven’t introduced anything cool :(

The A380 is as good as retired. Production was scheduled to stop in 2021 since 2019 [0]. It seems to have been advanced by the coronavirus crisis [1]. Air France has stopped flying the A380 [2]. [0] Airbus announces stopping production of A380 in 2021: https://www.capital.fr/entreprises-marches/airbus-annonce-la... [1] Coronavirus gives the final blow to the A380 https://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/le-coronavirus-donne…

Stopped flying it? That sounds dire. Smaller planes, like the smaller airbuses, serve for 25-30 years, right, so why wouldn't the A380 serve them for longer?

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#67

Post by quink »

blackrock wrote: post #62
fsckboy wrote: post #22

the 747-8F freighter will continue, so the title is misleading. The era is not over, at a maximum closing the era of jumbo passenger jets. and as points of interest, the hump on the 747 keeps the cockpit out of the way allowing freight to be loaded more easily and completely, and freighters don't mind stopping to refuel (too expensive to carry all that fuel for the whole trip) and that's what makes the 747 continue t…

In the long run, would it be cheaper to build cargo planes that can refuel in midair? That way you don’t overburdened the ground airport system. And eventually, the refueling airplane can become robotic, and fly fully automated also.

Cargo can accept an hour or five refuelling in Anchorage or be half a day late.

And cargo planes fly far fewer hours each day than passenger planes, leading to fewer movements per plane. OTOH the fact that the MD-10/MD-11 has a second life in cargo also is evidence that fuel burn isn’t the primary concern. And that’s cheaper than ever now, while being the primary operational cost.

And weight (and thus fuel burn) is only one constraint, the other is volume.

Anyway, this whole thing goes away by just adding a runway in Anchorage at most assuming anything like current demand.

And especially after the still unresolved 737MAX saga there is very little appetite in commercial aviation towards increased aviation. We’re down to two people, that’s enough.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#68

Post by iso8859-1 »

WJW wrote: post #57
the-dude wrote: post #43

In The Netherlands we have an iconic train which must have been inspired by the 747. https://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_1533730717772/content/assets/...

The designers elevated the driver cabin so that it would be possible for passengers to walk underneath it when they coupled multiple trains together into a longer one. Sadly, it turned out the doors for the interlocking mechanism were very error prone so in the end they just welded them shut and you have to go around outside (at a station) if you want to move between trains sets.

Weird, intuitively seems like a less fragile approach than a giant diaphragm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC3

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#69

Post by jcims »

jedberg wrote: post #63

Such a shame. The best flight I ever took was on an A380. The thing was just so big that turbulence didn't seem to affect it. Flying on the jumbo jets was always a trip. With Boeing pulling the plug on the 747, it will be long time before anyone makes a double decker again, if ever.

I'll never forget my first flight on a 747. DEN to LAX, and for some reason the plane was almost completely empty..maybe 20 passengers. I was way back and was able to absorb the view of almost the entire airframe from the inside. As we neared the end of the takeoff roll and the pilot started to rotate, the wingtips started to raise with the stress on the wings. I've seen this before in other planes of course, but the thing that was odd was that as this continued i could see the walls of the fuselage directly over the wings start to bow inward. Not by much of course, but it was incredibly obvious and interesting.

The next flight was from LAX to MEL and it was completely full. I never thought we were going to get into the air.

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