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Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

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Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#41

Post by Scramblejams »

Tiltowait-- wrote: post #26
sesuximo wrote: post #23

It’s a little sad that we’ve retired the 747, the Concorde, and (almost) the A380. And we haven’t introduced anything cool :(

The Concorde was done in by fuel prices, and because it was a small aircraft. I visited one in a museum and it was claustrophobic. Also nobody should be sorry that elites have to sit on long overseas flights just like we do. The A380 was a boondoggle from the beginning, an attempt to outdo Boeing by having TEH BIGGEREST aircraft on the market. Having to rebuild airports to accommodate it wasn't a good idea. The 747 i…

When I worked in aerospace I was told by a Boeing old-timer that he was sure Boeing only made the 747-700X proposal last as long as it did in order to force Airbus into making the A380 mistake, and that none of the Boeing insiders thought a plane that big would ever make real sense to spend money developing. Naturally I have no way to verify this, but it's a fun corporate strategy conspiracy theory.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#42

Post by bobthepanda »

Tiltowait-- wrote: post #26
sesuximo wrote: post #23

It’s a little sad that we’ve retired the 747, the Concorde, and (almost) the A380. And we haven’t introduced anything cool :(

The Concorde was done in by fuel prices, and because it was a small aircraft. I visited one in a museum and it was claustrophobic. Also nobody should be sorry that elites have to sit on long overseas flights just like we do. The A380 was a boondoggle from the beginning, an attempt to outdo Boeing by having TEH BIGGEREST aircraft on the market. Having to rebuild airports to accommodate it wasn't a good idea. The 747 i…

The 747 was updated recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-8

The major issue with the jumbo planes' (passenger) variants is that twin-engines now have significantly increased range, and have half the fuel consumption to boot. It's a lot easier to sell premium direct tickets rather than convince people to transfer onto a large cattle-class jumbo jet. Even pre-point to point, actually filling up a jumbo jet could be quite difficult, so now the death knell has been a long time coming, unless you're a Middle Eastern carrier operating the super-long-haul hub model.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#44

Post by ceejayoz »

manigandham wrote: post #37

> The 747 notched its last order as a passenger jet in 2017 -- for Air Force One. What's the next version going to be then?

The current set were built in the 1980s, these ones will likely have a similar lifespan, so who knows? If you had to pick a non-747 Air Force One today it'd probably be a 777 or 787, although it'd be fun to see a C-5 in AF1 colors.

In 30 years the President may hop around in a custom SpaceX Starship.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#45

Post by jandrese »

manigandham wrote: post #37

> The 747 notched its last order as a passenger jet in 2017 -- for Air Force One. What's the next version going to be then?

Probably a 777. It's smaller, but not by a lot. Plus the current AF1 should be in the air for many years still.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#46

Post by Johnjonjoan »

manigandham wrote: post #34
fsckboy wrote: post #22

the 747-8F freighter will continue, so the title is misleading. The era is not over, at a maximum closing the era of jumbo passenger jets. and as points of interest, the hump on the 747 keeps the cockpit out of the way allowing freight to be loaded more easily and completely, and freighters don't mind stopping to refuel (too expensive to carry all that fuel for the whole trip) and that's what makes the 747 continue t…

Don't takeoff/landing cycles on the engines and airframe counteract the fuel savings? EDIT: Specifically pressurization cycles and metal fatigue, since that's how aircraft lifespan is measured.

I wonder if the limiting fact to cargo capacity is weight or volume. If it's weight then perhaps the additional freight offsets those costs rather than saving fuel.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#47

Post by anamexis »

manigandham wrote: post #37

> The 747 notched its last order as a passenger jet in 2017 -- for Air Force One. What's the next version going to be then?

The previous generation was delivered in 1990, so who knows what the airliner market will look like in 2050.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#48

Post by bregma »

makerofspoons wrote: post #19
nsl73 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to do air travel, these larger airplanes are better then smaller airplanes per passenger.

The lifecycle impact of a 747 is much worse than a 737 or an Embraer 145: https://escholarship.org/content/qt6m5865v5/qt6m5865v5.pdf Regardless of the plane size however, there's no getting around planes depositing pollution in the upper atmosphere is worse than we thought and cannot be thought of in the same way as emissions from a train or power plant: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2207886-it-turns-out-pl...

Running an electric train on a transatlantic -- or transpacific -- trip causes an awful lot of environmental degradation, too.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#49

Post by bobthepanda »

innocenat wrote: post #24
DataJunkie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 737 is pretty versatile though. It's limitation is capacity and perhaps range. Range has been improved over the years allowing a lot of medium-range thin-capacity flights. The 737, 777 and 787 combined have eliminated the need for the 747, 757 and 767. The classics have mostly or entirely been retired, with the most common models being the -700 and -800. The family has enough flexibility to evolve in range withou…

> The 737, 777 and 787 combined have eliminated the need for the 747, 757 and 767. There are huge demand for A321LR precisely because there is a need for 757-like capacity and range. Granted, when 757 was discontinued the demand wasn't there yet.

It was also why Boeing was, until the MAX debacle and COVID, also scrambling for the NMA, and why the MAX was so large.

Re: Boeing quietly pulls plug on the 747, closing era of jumbo jets

#50

Post by Tiltowait-- »

ponker wrote: post #33
Tiltowait-- wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artistic value? With the ugly hump? That hump isn't just physically ugly, it's socially ugly as well. It is where the elites congregate. Anything that diminishes their status relative to our own is a good thing.

The hump is where business class usually sits. First class is up in the nose.

As if there is any difference. Whomever can pay 4x the price of a ticket is going to be someone distasteful. Oh wait, are you that far up the hierarchy that there's a meaningful difference from where you're at? Shoot, I suppose so, if you even knew this, it means you've sat up there. When that happens, business class looks normal and first class is where you want to be. The back on the plane, in economy? shudder you mean they exist? Ewww....
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