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Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

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Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#161

And yes, he's absolutely correct. Some advertisers such as the big Canadian banks aren't even hiding it now switching from announcing a boycott to a limited-time withdrawal: "Participating brands will suspend all advertising on the platform for the month of July." https://globalnews.ca/news/7129688/facebook-boycott-canada-b...

FB should offer a "limited-time" discount for advertisers, subsidized by rate hike when those boycotting return.

Why would this be a good idea? It sounds like a "punishment."

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because broadcast media is a publisher. Does Facebook want to call itself a publisher? If it does then I am sure FCC will regulate Facebook too. Right now all social media platforms are shielded by Section 230. They are platforms and not liable to what is posted on their platforms. But, some social media companies like Twitter have taken on the mantle of a publisher by mucking around with the US President's tweets. T…

They are _very_ clearly acting as publishers as well. When you connect to twitter do you see the same monolithic platform that everyone else sees before you each sort it as you please? Of course not. You see a specific-as-possible individual experience published just for you. Edit: Twitter clearly needs and should have the ability to manage the content they publish. But they also clearly function like a platform in s…

> They are _very_ clearly acting as publishers as well.

Then they should be held liable for every post/tweet that goes on their platform! Will they be willing to accept that liability like the media houses do? You can sue the media house if it posts something that is false. You can't sue Facebook for a post someone put on it. Facebook will call itself a platform and deny taking liability for someone's post.

> It does not make sense to try to argue that Twitter is either a platform or a publisher and nothing in between

It does make sense. Your nature of business defines the regulations that apply on you. I can't start a software business today and 3 years later arbitrarily decide to convert it to a defense manufacturing company and still hope to retain the same regulatory rules that apply for software companies. There are regulatory policies for every company based on its nature of business. You are creating a monster if you allow these social media companies to have all sorts of policies without any regulatory oversight!

EDIT:

> You see a specific-as-possible individual experience published just for you.

Yes and it still is a platform because the functionality (personal recommendations) is built into the platform as a feature right? It is a AI tool that recommends a feed based on your likes and dislikes. Is this the same as publishing? Nope. With publishing you have a process where posts are edited, verified and then shown to the public. There is some notion of "trust". So when I watch news I know that the news channel has not just curated, but also verified and then is showing me the content that I can then consume. That verification step is essential and is what separates a "Publisher" from a "Platform". Twitter never "verified" the feed right? It just curated it. As a platform it can only "moderate" based on its policies that prohibit certain acts that are illegal by law: like sharing child pornography or calling for violence or gambling. This is required by law and that is where moderation tools come into play. Twitter, by censoring/editing/attaching information to Trump's tweet is behaving as a "publisher" by actually verifying the content of the tweet in question. It does not fall under "moderation" as there is nothing there that is illegal for them to moderate. The feed I consume through personal recommendations is curated but still unverified. I still have to figure out for myself if the post/tweet in question is correct or incorrect. The onus of verification rests with me, the user. That is why it is a platform. The onus of verification in case of media channels rest with the channel. Because they are operating on the notion of "trust". That as a consumer of their content I have trust in what they show me. I don't need to verify. That trust is broken if they start lying. They can lie and spread fake news. But they will be held liable for it. That is why they are a publisher and have to go through the headache of verifying the news before it is broadcast to the public.

Twitter is like a post office. You send mails via post, you expect the postman to deliver the post to the nearest post office, which sorts and aggregates those posts and then pushes those posts to the relevant po box for dispatch. Imagine if the post office started to open the mails and tamper with the messaging. Would you be okay with it? The post office can only open posts if they find something criminal and that also has to be done in a systematic manner: An authority should be present while the post is being opened, every step is to be recorded, the items within the post should be carefully handled and recorded all the way up until the post is sealed. And then the authority must sign off by saying that the post did not contain anything bad (like drugs/weapons whatever that is declared illegal in that jurisdiction). That is the only powers a post office has.

Now imagine if the post office started messing with the posts. Imagine if you were running for election and you distribute flyers through postal mail. One of the employees in the post office doesn't agree with your ideology and decides to tamper with the flyer. Instead of modifying the flyer he attaches a sticky note with his own comments so whoever reads the flyer will also read the sticky note. Would this not be considered tampering with the messaging? How is Twitter attaching a notice to Trump's tweet any different from this? Only difference is that it is virtual and not physical?

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#164
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely wrong on both counts. THe only real change will come from users. If Facebook users start boycotting (and to be clear no users are doing this), that is what will hurt them. So while you and I continue to be outraged, a lot of users don't care enough and just goto Facebook to see what their friends are doing and clicking on that ad. And the wheel keeps on turning around. Employee activism won't matte…

Agree with you on the first part, but not sure on the second – if skilled employees leave (especially for other competing social media apps) Facebook will start to lag. Even with its core loyal employees Facebook can’t compete if they don’t retain skilled workers.

> Even with its core loyal employees Facebook can’t compete if they don’t retain skilled workers.

There is an abundance of skilled workers who don’t care about this boycott. I personally know quite a few skilled devs who think Zuckerberg taking a stand is a reason to work for Facebook.

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite easy to get a measurement on your screen. That doesn't necessarily translate to measuring the impact of ad spending. If I have social media ads, paid search, and retargeting ads all live on multiple platforms, there is undoubtedly interaction among them and the quite-easy self-serve ad tool is likely to show me a simplistic "last click attribution" at best.

Often on Google I see ads right above a organic link to the same site. I wonder if marketing teams count the ad click as a "win" when in fact I was looking for the company because I learned of it via word of mouth.

I’ve always seen that considered to be “paid search-branded”, which is tracked but is tracked and treated separately (for the reason you said).

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#166
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Point of clarification here: Twitter censored and edited absolutely nothing. They attached a warning to Trump's tweet. It is still available for all to read in its entirety. No Twitter actually removed a video[1] that Trump posted. [1]: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/twitter-labels...

> in response to a copyright claim from one of the children’s parents So they didn't remove it because of their own demands for censorship, they removed it because the DMCA required them to.

Does DMCA really require them to do so? Doesn't it fall under fair use?

Do memes also attract DMCA notices now? How about this Nickelback meme that was removed from Trump's tweet: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/10/twitter-nixes-tr...

Are you actually telling me that this doesn't constitute fair use? If this doesn't constitute fair use then Twitter will have to delete a billion tweets that use the same meme. Will Twitter be fair in its policy and remove all of them?

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#167

And yes, he's absolutely correct. Some advertisers such as the big Canadian banks aren't even hiding it now switching from announcing a boycott to a limited-time withdrawal: "Participating brands will suspend all advertising on the platform for the month of July." https://globalnews.ca/news/7129688/facebook-boycott-canada-b...

FB should offer a "limited-time" discount for advertisers, subsidized by rate hike when those boycotting return.

Ad rates are down, and I know several publishers, whose ads are monetizing well, are using this opportunity to increase FB spending . Like, buying hand over fist

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#168
Look, I'm not going to lie: I'm not the biggest fan of Facebook and the way it structured it's closed groups or how it allows posts to go 'viral'. I think there's a lot of negativity that comes from 'viral' posts.

But does anyone realistically think you could put Facebook in charge of moderating all content in the 500+ or so languages on there? With 3 billion users?

It would mean the end of all open communications platforms that we've seen since 2000s.

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#169

I work in marketing. Advertising markets are pretty damned efficient. If a bunch of advertisers pull out, rates come down, new advertisers come in. There may be some affect, especially if big companies were spending inefficiently to build "awareness". But at the end of the day, the market rate for a click is the market rate. Someone will pay for it.

Yup, this is true. Someone else's banner just shows up instead of the "boycotting" brand.

Re: Zuckerberg: advertisers will be back to Facebook 'soon enough'

#170
post #7

Of course he's right. If anything I'm surprised advertisers aren't cutting back more given how much revenue they're probably losing during the pandemic. Real change has to come from two sources. Firstly regulation, Facebook will never "self-regulate" and this corporate activism is a joke. And secondly, from employees who in sufficient numbers have at least some leverage.

If you have leverage with your employer you should use it to demand more money. Don't let other people bully you into wasting your negotiating capital on their pet causes.

Not being bullied by anyone and I've got enough money. Which was sort of my point. Tech workers are generally speaking financially secure enough to actually use their negotiating capital for something that's important to them.

Money is the lowest form of compensation, it doesn't really matter once you have enough to put food on the table and pay rent. Self-realisation is more important and a lot of people in particular at tech companies haven't fully realised yet how much influence they could have if they're smart about it.

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