How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime • Hacker News Board

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#41

Post by roosterdawn » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #15

When I read this I see a a niche, super premium hardware company that managed to acquire tens of thousands of customers by word of mouth. Not only that, their customers are all in-effect self employed or small businesses with huge average revenue per employee. They manage global supply chains, intense competition, all while taking on and managing huge legal/compliance risk. How is is that supposedly "dumb," criminals…

> does it mean that if you sell something people actually want, literally nothing else matters about your intelligence, education, character, background, or anything at all

You got it. As always, it's the gross margins. Cocaine has higher gross margins than most prescription drugs, which in and of themselves are almost pure margin -- nevermind that, the market demand for it is broad and deep globally. Cartel operators aren't dumb. On the contrary, they show much of the unsavory, warlord like aspects of doing many kinds of business where there are zero-sum dynamics like this -- they just don't even try and hide it.

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#42

Post by duub » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #12

> The messages "have given insight in an unprecedented large number of serious crimes, including [...] murders, thrashing robberies, extortions, robberies [...]" Dutch law enforcement said. What are "thrashing robberies"? Is this an odd translation of some Dutch term?

From the Dutch Public Prosecution Service (Dutch: Openbaar ministerie, OM): "De berichten van ongeveer 10.000 gebruikers alleen al in Nederland hebben zicht gegeven op ongekend grote aantallen ernstige misdrijven, waaronder grote, internationale drugstransporten en drugslabs, liquidaties, plofkraken, afpersingen, overvallen, zware mishandeling en gijzelingen." https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuws/2020/07/02/aardschok-voor-g...

Most probably "plofkraken" has been translated to "trashing robberies". A better translation would be something like "ram-raiding" or "ATM-raiding".

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#43

Post by motohagiography » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

kyboren wrote: post #35

motohagiography wrote: post #15

When I read this I see a a niche, super premium hardware company that managed to acquire tens of thousands of customers by word of mouth. Not only that, their customers are all in-effect self employed or small businesses with huge average revenue per employee. They manage global supply chains, intense competition, all while taking on and managing huge legal/compliance risk. How is is that supposedly "dumb," criminals…

> does it mean that if you sell something people actually want, literally nothing else matters about your intelligence, education, character, background, or anything at all. Yes, although I think more specifically s/want/are addicted to/. See also: Saudi Aramco and Facebook. > What I'm beginning to think is that the "smarter," people are in a company, the less anyone will want their product. Do you not think Apple an…

I'd posit Apple, Google and Tesla used growth and revenue to hire intellectual people, where we can see everywhere else that the majority of growth and PMF itself is independent of the intellectualism of the employees. It's a loose correlation. It may beg the question in regard to what smart/intelligent/intellectual might mean, but financial success and intellectualism certainly seem inversely correlated, with criminal businesses being the most polarized example.

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#44

Post by speedgoose » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

vianneychevalie wrote: post #2

I'm very curious as to which legal basis French authorities have had for this coordinated state-level hack. It's mentioned that they had one, but nothing more specific, even in French media I've looked up.

It's explained in this French PDF : http://www.eurojust.europa.eu/press/Documents/2020-07-02_Enc...

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#45

Post by hamandcheese » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

kyboren wrote: post #35

motohagiography wrote: post #15

When I read this I see a a niche, super premium hardware company that managed to acquire tens of thousands of customers by word of mouth. Not only that, their customers are all in-effect self employed or small businesses with huge average revenue per employee. They manage global supply chains, intense competition, all while taking on and managing huge legal/compliance risk. How is is that supposedly "dumb," criminals…

> does it mean that if you sell something people actually want, literally nothing else matters about your intelligence, education, character, background, or anything at all. Yes, although I think more specifically s/want/are addicted to/. See also: Saudi Aramco and Facebook. > What I'm beginning to think is that the "smarter," people are in a company, the less anyone will want their product. Do you not think Apple an…

Google still seems to be riding on their ad business. Their other products are very hit and miss. So yes, I think Google is a great example here.

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#46

Post by hamandcheese » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

randompwd wrote: post #13

Fantastic. Maybe read the article before commenting: "bUt EncRypTion is My rIGht/bIg sTATe/ITs jUST maths" Encryption between groups without decryption available (on request) to outside 3rd parties is a poison chalice. I'm in the EU, not in the US. I don't want any companies(esp. US companies) deciding how EU daily lives unfold. Delighted so many scumbags will be off the streets. If they had access earlier, more crim…

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#47

Post by Pick-A-Hill2019 » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

Ouch. This is gonna hurt. For those that comment before/without rtfa a few select quotes - " ... monitored and investigated "more than a hundred million encrypted messages" sent between Encrochat users in real time"; "They're just lifting people," another source close to criminal users of Encrochat told Motherboard and (please excuse the NSFW direct quote) "People are fucked," one of the sources who provided the documents to Motherboard said. Viewing this from a purely technical stance, Wow & Ouch.

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#48

Post by dlgeek » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #15

When I read this I see a a niche, super premium hardware company that managed to acquire tens of thousands of customers by word of mouth. Not only that, their customers are all in-effect self employed or small businesses with huge average revenue per employee. They manage global supply chains, intense competition, all while taking on and managing huge legal/compliance risk. How is is that supposedly "dumb," criminals…

It's also worth noting that the intersection of "capable enough to build that sort of company" and "willing to go the criminal route" is small enough to limit the potential competition.

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#49

Post by ta17711771 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 4:09 AM UTC

joemazerino wrote: post #33

motohagiography wrote: post #15

When I read this I see a a niche, super premium hardware company that managed to acquire tens of thousands of customers by word of mouth. Not only that, their customers are all in-effect self employed or small businesses with huge average revenue per employee. They manage global supply chains, intense competition, all while taking on and managing huge legal/compliance risk. How is is that supposedly "dumb," criminals…

The underground market has one thing legitimate business doesn't have: product that sells itself.

Take a lesson.

Make your product and customer service so good that people can't say no, even if they want to.

See: Google Search and Mail, Facebook, TikTok, other spyware

Re: How Police Secretly Took over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime

#50

Post by ciarannolan » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 6:48 AM UTC

speedgoose wrote: post #44

vianneychevalie wrote: post #2

I'm very curious as to which legal basis French authorities have had for this coordinated state-level hack. It's mentioned that they had one, but nothing more specific, even in French media I've looked up.

It's explained in this French PDF : http://www.eurojust.europa.eu/press/Documents/2020-07-02_Enc...

Can a French speaker please give us a tldr?