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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#381

Post by grey-area »

nailer wrote: post #376
grey-area wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the EU will be moved by this. They can easily wait till the UK exits without a deal then be in an even stronger negotiating position.

You understand the concept of 'mutual', right?

Like the bank robber, you seem to mistake a threat of self-harm by the UK for an existential threat to the EU. No deal is not mutually assured destruction, it's certain destruction for the UK and some damage to the EU.

That's not a very convincing lever in a negotiation. The final relationship will benefit the EU far more than the UK, simply because of the balance of power, regardless of delusions to the contrary and empty bombast from Johnson.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#382

Post by nailer »

grey-area wrote: post #381
nailer wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand the concept of 'mutual', right?

Like the bank robber, you seem to mistake a threat of self-harm by the UK for an existential threat to the EU. No deal is not mutually assured destruction, it's certain destruction for the UK and some damage to the EU. That's not a very convincing lever in a negotiation. The final relationship will benefit the EU far more than the UK, simply because of the balance of power, regardless of delusions to the contrary and…

OK, you think the EU wants to deliberately damage itself, like your bank robber analogy. You're welcome to your opinion.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#383

Post by ben_w »

growlist wrote: post #380
toyg wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.

> But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there i…

You’re saying this on a thread whose ancestor comment (not yours, I know) was:

> the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions?

And you’re saying it to people who are coming up with reasons why the post-Brexit EU doesn’t share your concerns.

This does not require a “cold war type situation”. It just requires every other EU member state to have more important things from their own perspective.

It’s not hatred you’re seeing from the EU, it is apathy.

The false dichotomy is your own.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#384

Post by blibble »

growlist wrote: post #380
toyg wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was.

> But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there i…

just FYI: you're arguing with someone that spent a year attempting to move to the EU because the UK voted to leave (from his own comments on this site)

everything the UK does is automatically bad

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#385

Post by tasogare »

delecti wrote: post #103
tasogare wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Honk Hong should have been given back to the Republic of China (Taiwan) which is the direct successor of the Qing empire, not the PRC. RPC is not a successor of Qing nor ROC since ROC still exists.

Honestly I think so too, but I doubt the UK government wanted to start a war with China.

Hum I was half trolling half serious, having skin in the game in favour of Taiwan. Interesting the game Wargame: Red Dragon has exactly a campaign about UK vs PRC over HK.

And I spoke that after having of talk with a Japanese people today and they fear they are the next on the list. I told them Japan at like 6th or 5th powerful army despite Article 9, + US alliance (that we all understand as half trustable only), so quite able to defend themselves. A lot of people in East Asian (HK, Vietnam, Philipines, Japan) fear China. This is what I got from talking with friends from this country. Everyone think there will be war at some point, only the time and starting place is unknown.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#386

Post by ben_w »

blibble wrote: post #384
growlist wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is also no reason why they should even try, whereas before there was. This makes no sense. There's countless examples of independent nations/supra-national bodies etc. with wildly diverging goals across many areas also managing to work together on shared goals. You seem to be pushing the same false dichotomy again, that is, that it's either the UK within the EU, else a cold war type situation, and there i…

just FYI: you're arguing with someone that spent a year attempting to move to the EU because the UK voted to leave (from his own comments on this site) everything the UK does is automatically bad

Someone who succeeded in remaining in the EU after a one year delay to look after a parent with Alzheimer’s, not explicitly because of the vote itself but because several prominent Brexit campaigners wanted to take away the one stick I could use to fight off the Investigatory Powers Act 2016.

And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid. It’s just that competent “no-EEA Brexit” planning would take the UK about 10 of the last 4 years even if it hadn’t done anything else. Heck, if Cameron has said “Oh well, EEA it will be then like the Leave campaigners asked for :(” I would probably still be in the UK, because EEA membership requires the government to allow me to use the metaphorical stick I want to keep the IP Act at bay.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#387

Post by blibble »

ben_w wrote: post #386
blibble wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just FYI: you're arguing with someone that spent a year attempting to move to the EU because the UK voted to leave (from his own comments on this site) everything the UK does is automatically bad

Someone who succeeded in remaining in the EU after a one year delay to look after a parent with Alzheimer’s, not explicitly because of the vote itself but because several prominent Brexit campaigners wanted to take away the one stick I could use to fight off the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid. It’s just that competent “…

> And no, not everything, and definitely not automatically — that’s one mind-trap I am keen to avoid.

if you say so, I actually worked with you before in meatspace and have seen the dogmatic behaviour before (several times)

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#388

Post by soheyl »

koheripbal wrote: post #364
vanekjar wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mother and children live in Canada while the father works in HK.The family doesn't declare the foreign income in Canada. Why would the father pay taxes in Canada when he lives and works in HK (or anywhere else) and (likely) is not a Canadian tax resident? It doesn't make any sense. After all they pay local taxes in Canada while spending (GST, PST, property tax etc.)

Income tax is by far the largest and most progressive tax. Sales taxes are small and regressive. It's a monster difference.

Fixed rate sales tax is regressive. A loaf of bread, a car, and a yacht should not be taxed at the same rate, and not only because of the demographic of the buyers, but also because of the introduced externalities.

Variable rate sales tax on the other hand is more progressive than any income tax.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#389

Post by pgcj_poster »

growlist wrote: post #378
pgcj_poster wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is physically large enough that everyone on Earth actually could live there with a reasonable amount of space to themselves. The issue would be feeding everyone, since even now the UK needs to import its food, and it's not clear who would grow it if literally everyone lived in Britain. But because of how markets work, as more people moved to the UK, prices would go up and people would have more incentive to st…

> The UK is physically large enough that everyone on Earth actually could live there with a reasonable amount of space to themselves. Clearly we have different ideas about reasonableness. > if it's population you're concerned about, shouldn't you also worry about people having babies? I do, especially in those parts of the world in which fertility is particularly high yet ability to actually look after those children…

If you divide the world population by the UK's area, you get 80,700 people/mile², which is slightly less than the population density of Mumbai, and only 13% higher than Manhattan. You might consider that "unreasonable," but it's not unlivable, or anything.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#390

Post by free_rms »

throwaway1997 wrote: post #369
free_rms wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presuming to control HKs fate after taking it in the freaking opium wars is. Giving HK back to China is an act of decolonization. Putting them under Taiwan and loading up the island with US weapons would not be.

Do you think we are happier now that we have been "handed back to the motherland" or is China happy? Why does the opinion and desires of Hong Kong citizens not mater in your mind?

In my mind, that's an internal Chinese matter.

I don't want to devalue your experience, but Anglo powers have a terrible record of "colonialism for their own good", "we'll be greeted as liberators", etc.

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