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Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#91

Post by phasnox »

henvic wrote: post #75
phasnox wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting payed less than $16/hour?? As a software developer? Man you are getting ripped off. My advice is to seek for opportunities overseas, or even in your country. For context I live in Ecuador.

To give you some context about how migration can impact salary: I made this spreadsheet during 2018 when I was trying to make a case for a raise that never happened. https://drive.google.com/file/d/18D1aAM0bTx4vLSDonpImtIfYR4T... In 2019 I resigned from my previous employer (an American company growing fast and short of 1000 employees nowadays). I moved to the Netherlands to work on a startup (that pays average for t…

Yes I guess this makes sense, although salaries here in Ecuador can be a little more competitive at least for developers with more experience. They are still way lower than 1st world countries.

Anyways, I think moving jobs is the best way to push for a raise, no matter where you live.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#92

Post by Negitivefrags »

627467 wrote: post #19

> The US-Mexico-Canada Agreement requires 40% or more of parts for each passenger vehicle be manufactured by workers who are paid at least $16 per hour... On face value this seems to be a very progressive condition.

I wonder how you even calculate that?

Is a single screw a part? Is the whole engine a part, or made of lots of parts? How far do you break each thing down until it’s a single part? Is it when it can’t be taken apart without cutting something? Could you get past that rule by just welding the things made by cheap workers together? So they are no longer seperate parts?

I have so many questions.

You could say 40% vehicle parts by mass but that doesn’t seem to capture the intent well either.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#93

Post by mensetmanusman »

Barrin92 wrote: post #16
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #3

The article is making it sound like some kind of backfire, and I'm not really sure why. It's gotta be good in the long run for US auto workers if their competitors' wages triple.

Because the US now gets no new jobs but the price for the cars will go up as the labour cost increases, proving the very trivial point that tariffs function as a tax on domestic consumers. If the goal of the policy was to redistribute money from Japanese carmakers and American consumers to Mexican factory workers they've done a great job, very altruistic. Also it's quite hilarious how quickly the reputation of the US…

It’s still deteriorating to a position above where it should be.

The US has caused so much uncountable suffering with its middle east policy, half the country is obese due in part to taking advantage of the dollar reserve status, and its politicians with Wall St. sold out most of the American workers for a quick buck (now these workers are all killing themselves with drugs or from joining the military to protect other countries borders).

Reputation needs to drop much more to reflect the situation.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#94

Post by mensetmanusman »

onion2k wrote: post #28
jonahhorowitz wrote: post #18

> The center also said U.S. car sales will drop by up to 1.3 million units annually due to the Trump administration's trade policy This is incredibly good news, if true. We need to reduce the number of cars in the US if we are going to have any chance of confronting climate change.

Only if there's a corresponding drop in the number of cars in use. It could be that people keep their old, inefficient, polluting cars for on the road for longer rather than replacing it. That would be bad for the environment.

People are driving drastically less.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#95

Post by Sophistifunk »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #54
erikw wrote: post #6

Wow, this should at least provide for some very interesting natural sociological experiments. For context, I make less than this as a software developer in Chile, and still have no problems saving and living a comfortable lifestyle. This is going to significantly impact the lives of folks working in these factories, and it will be interesting to see how it will affect the individuals, their communities, and the quali…

That's assuming it lasts. When you already have a factory in Mexico and now you have to pay them $16/hour, it makes little sense to immediately move it back to the US just in order to save $0 by paying US workers $16/hour instead. But the next thing that happens is that it becomes more cost effective to automate, so you start considering that. Then you don't employ as many people, and they become skilled workers who…

Those factories are just going to move out of the NAFTA area, assuming Biden doesn't win and undo everything Trump's done.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#96

Post by austincheney »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #86
austincheney wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you trying to argue that computers are not an intentional cost savings over floors full of accountants using pen and paper? Yes. The key word there is intentional . > Output volume increases as a result of higher demand. Indirectly. Output directly increases from higher production capacity. Wishful thinking and consumer desire do not transform manufacturing without some changes to that manufacturing.

> Yes. The key word there is intentional . You're basically arguing that businesses are run by people who can't compare numbers to each other. If automation costs less, as it often does, then businesses will adopt it because it costs less, because lowering costs increases margins (or volumes, if the lower costs are passed on). > Indirectly. Output directly increases from higher production capacity. Wishful thinking a…

Automation in almost every case costs substantially more, but frequently results in a lower cost per unit. Comparing variable numbers is algebra but this is a calculus problem.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#97

Post by AnthonyMouse »

austincheney wrote: post #96
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. The key word there is intentional . You're basically arguing that businesses are run by people who can't compare numbers to each other. If automation costs less, as it often does, then businesses will adopt it because it costs less, because lowering costs increases margins (or volumes, if the lower costs are passed on). > Indirectly. Output directly increases from higher production capacity. Wishful thinking a…

Automation in almost every case costs substantially more, but frequently results in a lower cost per unit. Comparing variable numbers is algebra but this is a calculus problem.

> Automation in almost every case costs substantially more, but frequently results in a lower cost per unit.

Which is why you amortize the up-front cost over the expected number of units adjusted for time value of money. In which case the automation often still results in lower overall costs.

> Comparing variable numbers is algebra but this is a calculus problem.

Calculus still leads to comparing numbers. Businesses know how to do calculus.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#98

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Sophistifunk wrote: post #95
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's assuming it lasts. When you already have a factory in Mexico and now you have to pay them $16/hour, it makes little sense to immediately move it back to the US just in order to save $0 by paying US workers $16/hour instead. But the next thing that happens is that it becomes more cost effective to automate, so you start considering that. Then you don't employ as many people, and they become skilled workers who…

Those factories are just going to move out of the NAFTA area, assuming Biden doesn't win and undo everything Trump's done.

Isn't the point of the agreement that the terms are better than what you get in other areas? It doesn't help to move to China if cars from China are subject to even higher tariffs than cars made for less than $16/hour in Mexico.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#99

Post by yellowapple »

It turns out the real border wall was the friends we made along the way.

That is: if auto workers are being paid that minimum wage by foreign automakers, that's gonna be a massive boon to Mexican household incomes, which improves the standard of living for at least some people, and in a dramatic way. This money will, I reckon, go straight toward things like entrepreneurship, higher education, and other things that help with upward mobility on a generational scale. This can (and I hope will) translate to less emigration pressure, since fewer Mexicans will feel the need to move north for US wages if they're already being paid US wages, and fewer migrants from further south will feel the need to continue across the US/Mexico border if they could instead settle in Mexico for similar pay and much lower cost of living. This could persist long-term, since a better-educated and more innovative population can give the Mexican economy one hell of a jumpstart (and, importantly, help whip up a generation of Mexicans with the technical education to keep up with the inevitable automation push).

I'm curious how this will play out long term, but it seems reasonable to me that we should pay workers according to the value they create rather than merely the cheapest employers can get away with paying (and contrary to what the far-capitalists might claim, these are rarely if ever in sync, especially when talking about outsourced labor; a worker in Mexico is not inherently worth different than a worker in the US, so why should those two workers be paid differently?), and I'm oddly optimistic about how this might play out.

Re: Japan auto companies triple Mexican pay rather than move to US

#100

Post by austincheney »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #97
austincheney wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automation in almost every case costs substantially more, but frequently results in a lower cost per unit. Comparing variable numbers is algebra but this is a calculus problem.

> Automation in almost every case costs substantially more, but frequently results in a lower cost per unit. Which is why you amortize the up-front cost over the expected number of units adjusted for time value of money. In which case the automation often still results in lower overall costs. > Comparing variable numbers is algebra but this is a calculus problem. Calculus still leads to comparing numbers. Businesses…

Algebra results in numbers. Calculus results in functions. Businesses that plan well know when not to invest in automation changes.
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