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Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

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Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#201

Post by zepto »

gamblor956 wrote: post #199
zepto wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be, but Apple’s way is also way more user friendly than almost anyone else’s. Also, the opt-in vs opt-out could be configurable.

Opt-out is by definition not more user friendly than a default opt-in process. It is in fact quite user-hostile and is used by a number of scam companies.

It sounds like you haven’t been reading along.

Opt-out is only user hostile when it is used as a scam. Whether it is hostile depends on the implementation.

Apple’s implementation is a friendly one. Firstly there is an email confirmation with a link to cancel, and secondly there is a single screen with all of the subscriptions aggregated and cancellable.

If you are someone who generally purchases subscriptions to things you actually want, then opt-out is clearly more friendly.

If you are someone who likes to try a bunch of stuff but isn’t likely to want to keep much of it, then you would likely prefer opt-in.

Whether a given implementation of opt-out is a scam or not is orthogonal to whether it matches your personal style.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#202

Post by scarface74 »

grawprog wrote: post #102
kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

So, forcing me to supply payment information for a free trial, then forcing the developer to make my free trial an auto subscription unless I opt-out is supposed to be user friendly? In what way is assuming you can take my money unless I say otherwise just because I used a free trial supposed to be user-friendly? I'm so unbelievabley tired of these anti-consumer practices being labelled as 'user friendly' or 'working…

It would be consumer unfriendly not to be told up front that an app is a subscription service, you use it for three weeks, put your information in there and then be told you have to pay.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#203

Post by scarface74 »

nottorp wrote: post #132
thoraway1010 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, cli…

Just because neswpaper companies are utter assholes, it doesn't mean Apple can't do better. Like in subscriptions being opt IN not opt out.

The subscription is opt-in. You have to explicitly choose the subscription, you get an alert, and you get an email before the subscription is charged.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#204

Post by valuearb »

nottorp wrote: post #184
valuearb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is the highest valued company in the world because it leads its industry in customer satisfaction. There are things to criticize Apple and the App Store over but trying to reduce subscription scams by making subscription terms consistent doesn’t seem like one of them. Why are you taking the word of a butthurt yogi instead of hearing Apple's side of the story?

Auto charging someone at the end of a free trial is a scam. I don't care that it's commonly accepted, it's still a scam.

Not the way Apple does it, pricing and cancellation instructions up front.

Some would argue tricking users into a free trial without telling them the subscription price is a scam. Once they start to depend on the app, it’s much harder to not subscribe.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#205

Post by qwerty456127 »

Trialware is broken by design anyway. While auto-billing is plain fraud (and is outlawed in some countries like Germany AFAIK), letting people to use a product for free during a single month is pointless - 90% times I install a trial version, forget about it, come back some months later when I have time just to find out I'm not allowed to try it any more because the trial has expired as a month since the installation has passed.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#208

Post by JimDabell »

subsubzero wrote: post #97

My experience was rather different. I purchased a constellation app (full price no subscription) and after owning it for a year the developer decided to go to a subscription model. I was never told about this until I noticed a monthly charge from apple. Super slimy behavior, I was pretty frustrated. I sent a request to have my charge refunded which apple obliged. In general I really dislike this type of auto-charging…

That sounds extremely unlikely – apps don’t have the ability to do that.

The only way an app can charge an in-app subscription is by asking iOS to prompt the user. This shows a system-controlled prompt telling you the price and that it is a recurring subscription. The prompt only allows you to purchase if you authenticate via Touch ID / Face ID / password, or if you have recently authenticated and have enabled the setting that skips this. Additionally, the App Store rules require that the screen that triggers the subscription also includes details on the subscription. Apple can and do reject submissions to the App Store if apps don’t comply with this.

There simply isn’t an API that lets apps set up an in-app subscription without going through the system-controlled prompt. There isn’t an API that lets apps "convert" a one-off payment to a recurring payment. Apps have no access to set up payments themselves, everything has to go through Apple-controlled, user-visible prompts. If somebody is being charged unexpectedly for a subscription, there’s something else happening, e.g. a partner who knows your password set it up, or you just forgot.

As far as Apple’s motives are concerned, they put a lot of effort into enforcing the rules around in-app purchases, reject a lot of apps on that basis, and err on the side of caution. I’v seen a lot of incorrect and overly strict rejections for apps that follow the rules. If Apple were in any way keen on accidental subscriptions, this would not be the case. They go out of their way in the opposite direction.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#209

Post by dang »

zepto wrote: post #201
gamblor956 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opt-out is by definition not more user friendly than a default opt-in process. It is in fact quite user-hostile and is used by a number of scam companies.

It sounds like you haven’t been reading along. Opt-out is only user hostile when it is used as a scam. Whether it is hostile depends on the implementation. Apple’s implementation is a friendly one. Firstly there is an email confirmation with a link to cancel, and secondly there is a single screen with all of the subscriptions aggregated and cancellable. If you are someone who generally purchases subscriptions to thin…

This comment breaks the site guidelines which asks Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Your comment would be just fine if shortened in the way the guidelines recommend; it's a fine comment otherwise.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#210

Post by Tainnor »

berkes wrote: post #19
iandanforth wrote: post #11

The comments here read like people with Stockholm syndrome.

There certainly seems a bias for Apple in here. What I really don't understand is why Some Random Hacker feels the need to jump into a thread and defend Apple, one of the wealthiest companies in the world.

When google uses AMP which allows you to read news sites without loading gigabytes of ads, they're "breaking the free internet". When Apple try to become the arbiters of how businesses should bill their customers (or, how they should let users sign up, or dozens of other things), they're just being user-centric. I find this terribly incosistent too.

(Note: I'm not saying I can't see the issues with AMP, too.)

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