Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont • Hacker News Board

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#131

Post by kodt » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #79

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

As someone that just wants a refreshing but quality lager there's nothing for me in this current wave. It's all group think. IPAs and Imperial Stouts everywhere. To the extent that you will find entire categories of beer on beer rating sites with nothing above a 4/5 in that category due to the groupthink that says more flavor = higher ratings. Refreshing, crisp and other such metrics don't count right now due to the…

I have see a big resurgence of lagers and especially Pilsners coming from craft breweries recently.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#132

Post by kodt » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

tomlagier wrote: post #90

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

Huh, I've actually seen a move against that. A few years ago, the "West-coast style" IPA with enormous amounts of hops was the vogue beer. Today, you're much more likely to see a "New England IPA", "hazy" or "juicy IPA" in the star spot. This style is much less bitter, with a bigger body and a ton of sweet juice notes. It's a heavy beer but man is it tasty and refreshing. Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing is a good exa…

Biggest issue with the hazy IPA style is that they aren’t as well suited for having multiple over the course of an evening. A bit too sweet and thick and sometimes heavy on lactose to really enjoy several.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#133

Post by kodt » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 12:02 AM UTC

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #16

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

I used to be really into discovering beers, but I usually just drink Founders All Day IPA these days, with a German Pilsner as a backup. There are only a couple months out of the year here in Florida where I'd want something that over 5%, though.

It’s funny because some of the “hot” breweries in Florida are known for making big sweet 15% barrel aged stouts year round.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#134

Post by tomlagier » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 12:03 AM UTC

kodt wrote: post #132

tomlagier wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I've actually seen a move against that. A few years ago, the "West-coast style" IPA with enormous amounts of hops was the vogue beer. Today, you're much more likely to see a "New England IPA", "hazy" or "juicy IPA" in the star spot. This style is much less bitter, with a bigger body and a ton of sweet juice notes. It's a heavy beer but man is it tasty and refreshing. Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing is a good exa…

Biggest issue with the hazy IPA style is that they aren’t as well suited for having multiple over the course of an evening. A bit too sweet and thick and sometimes heavy on lactose to really enjoy several.

Yeah, that's really true. If I'm going to have more than one beer, I'll typically switch to something lighter and cleaner for my 2nd.

For me it fills the place where a lot of people would put a stout or a Belgian - a really good one-and-done sort of beer.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#135

Post by koyote » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 12:15 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

I feel like it's because an IPA is difficult to mess up. As an amateur brewer, the IPAs always seemed to taste 'fine' whereas my amateur skills/setup were never able to produce a decent lager or wheat, nevermind even more complex styles.

That's why I usually try the non-IPAs whenever I try a new brewery; I am also usually disappointed...

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#136

Post by kochikame » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 12:22 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

The bad IPAs you are talking about have dialed up the bitterness (because they seem to think that's what an IPA is all about) but are unable to create any of that wonderful complexity, aroma and flavor from the hops used. I absolutely hate these simplistic IPA clones, which are mostly found in supermarkets and give IPAs (and craft beer) a bad name.

Bitterness =/= hoppiness

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#137

Post by DrAwdeOccarim » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 12:29 AM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #110

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

You might want to look at hazy IPAs a.k.a. New England-style IPAs. They've completely transformed the market, and they're the first hoppy beers I've ever really liked. They're not bitter at all, and instead they focus on extracting the fruit juice flavors of the hops. A lot of them taste like alcoholic orange juice mixed with other kinds of juice. I've developed a huge taste for them, and they're the perfect antidote…

I too am a big fan of the New England-style IPA. I keep coming back to Maine Beer Company Mo, offially classified as a "Pale Ale" but since it's NE I'll give it a pass. Lunch is another good one from them, which is more bitter than Mo but really good.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#138

Post by defen » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:02 AM UTC

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #79

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

As someone that just wants a refreshing but quality lager there's nothing for me in this current wave. It's all group think. IPAs and Imperial Stouts everywhere. To the extent that you will find entire categories of beer on beer rating sites with nothing above a 4/5 in that category due to the groupthink that says more flavor = higher ratings. Refreshing, crisp and other such metrics don't count right now due to the…

Pfriem Pilsner if you're in Oregon, Washington, or maybe San Diego

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#139

Post by cat199 » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

catalogia wrote: post #96

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that just wants a refreshing but quality lager there's nothing for me in this current wave. It's all group think. IPAs and Imperial Stouts everywhere. To the extent that you will find entire categories of beer on beer rating sites with nothing above a 4/5 in that category due to the groupthink that says more flavor = higher ratings. Refreshing, crisp and other such metrics don't count right now due to the…

I have similar preferences and share your frustration. I wonder if part of the problem is that "refreshing and crisp" are hard to quantify. Because you can't put objective numbers to them like IBU or ABV, you can't hope to sell your beer by having "better numbers" than your competitors.

think this + undeveloped palates is exactly it.

IMHO americans aren't big on 'subtle' when it comes to anything food/drink (or really anything else) for the same reasons - 'really good beef' isn't the same as 'farm kobe with quadruple 5-adjective bacon and 10 cheeses' when it comes to a hamburger, and who wants a 'boring' ice-cream sundae when you can have a 'quadruple caramel chocolate oreo(tm) desertsmasher(tm)' or whatever have you

beer wise i tend to prefer english bitter ales which tend to be very well balanced and flavorful but are also subtle and not as 'clear' to explain as 'turbo bloodhound from hell ultra quadruple cascade hops mega super IPA brah'

same reason (+ more 'business' focus) we have comic-book branded wines which outline grape ratios in percentages with no thought as to terroir instead of subtly branded wines emphasizing regions/appelations/houses as in europe.

same thing is going on with the legal mj market where ultra-high THC percentages and max flavor are the focus

etc, etc, etc.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#140

Post by dvtrn » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:35 AM UTC

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #56

dvtrn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly Asked honesty and earnestly, why?

PC seems very confused about how niche cask ale is (even in the UK), but the point does still stand to a degree. Some styles do have quite short shelf lives, namely the ubiquitously popular IPAs. Even with miniscule DO (dissolved oxygen) levels - breweries measure in PPB - you have a few weeks until staling can be reliably discriminated. Distribution takes a couple of those good weeks right off the top in many cases,…

Distribution takes a couple of those good weeks right off the top in many cases, making stale beer a real issue for people that like hoppy styles.

I'm not sure I can concur with this, distribution of spirits is an incredibly well solved problem and a speedy one, taking the forms of self-distribution, "hot-shot" distribution/delivery and wholesale distributors. They vary in scale and they all serve different customer segments in the marketplace. I'll concede that wholesale distribution can definitely sometimes take longer than the other two distribution models, but not by a significant magnitudes that it affects the product as much as many would presume, especially with refrigeration technology able to keep the product from heating up and suffering from basic chemistry doing its thing as the beer "cooks" in transit once it's been kegged and sealed

E.g.

Self-distribution models if your local state allows it lets brewers sell right out the back of their vans or right off site to any bar or patron that wants to buy and has the proper licenses to sell alcohol (I did this in Austin for 3 years driving from Austin to Houston weekly with a van full of kegs to bars that had made an order only days prior).

Hot-shot delivery isn't too different from this only it's usually upstart distributing companies (sometimes former brewery workers who split off, bought a van and got appropriate licenses) who will buy kegs and flip them to consumers.

Wholesale, name speaks for itself, but they often sell direct to retailers.

Ultmately though, alcohol distribution is a very well solved problem.