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Oppose the Earn IT Act

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Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#311
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My nothing to hide argument is a little different; Nothing to hide is an incomplete sentence. Nothing to hide from who? Surly you want to hide your children from abusers and predators? Don't you want to hide your banking details from con artists and fraudsters? Your identity from identity thieves.. Your location from burglars, your car keys from car thieves or your blood type from some rich mobsters with kidney probl…

I like this argument. My normal response to "I have nothing to hide" is: "Cool, can I take a look at your browser search/reddit history?".

That argument doesn't work because some people are so conformist that every detail about their personal lives would be considered 100% unobjectionable to anyone they know or work for. (This is impossible when you know or work for diverse groups, but inside of a monoculture it's possible.)

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#312

The act itself seems to revolve around limiting section 230 protections ( https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:47%20section:... ) to those who pass a checklist of TBD requirements determined by a TBD bureaucracy. I've struggled a bit to find resources helping to describe what section 230 protections are actually for, however. Many of the examples explaining section 230 protections seem to revolve around thi…

not to mention that the TBD requirements have to be approved and voted on by congress to become law.

that said, there is also some text that changes specific wording in other existing laws that may have an impact on future court cases, e.g.: “(2) CIVIL REMEDY FOR CERTAIN ACTIVITIES RELATING TO MATERIAL INVOLVING THE SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF MINORS.—Conduct by a provider of an interactive computer service (as defined in section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 230)) that would violate section 2252 or section 2252A if that section were applied by substituting ‘recklessly’ for ‘knowingly’ each place that term appears shall be considered a violation of section 2252 or section 2252A for purposes of paragraph (1) of this subsection.”.

We could be charitable about what 'recklessly' means, but given the tendency of pre-digital judges to misunderstand technology - I can understand why there is a pushback against this kind of language.

"What do you mean you don't keep a history of your clients' internet activity? I would construe that as reckless behavior."

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say, no need to look at hypotheticals. Just sit back and watch what the Chinese government likely has done with the social media posts from people in Hong Kong, who are now in a desperate rush to obliterate them. Tough look, those have already been crawled and indexed. It's not quite the same, because these social media posts weren't meant to be private at the time, but it illustrates the point what can happen when…

Americans have a sense that what happens in China (or Nazi Germany, or any other place you'd care to name) can't possibly happen here—even if it is currently happening here. Gone are the days during the Cold War where you could say, "What is this, Soviet Russia?" and have anyone squirm at the comparison.

What happened in Nazi Germany was actively and continuously facilitated and supported by an American technology company under contract.

The numbers tattooed on Holocaust prisoners' arms were IBM data identifiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_during_World_War_II

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#314
post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

The best argument I ever heard was: "Would you give up your right to free speech just because you have nothing important to say? No? Then why would you give up your right to privacy just because you have nothing to hide?"

While I fully support strong privacy & encryption, there is absolutely no logic in this argument because it tries to build upon an unrelated hypothetical.

A stronger argument should have tried to explain how this violates the constitution:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/earn-it-act-violates-c...

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#315
post #169
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obligatory plug for electoral reform. Lesser evils aren't inevitable; they're a product of a bad voting system. https://www.fairvote.org/rcv https://www.fairvote.org/alternatives Maine has converted to RCV already and it's stood up in court; 49 to go.

Just a quick reminder that in California, a bill allowing statewide ranked-choice voting in all cities (not just charter ones) was passed by both the state assembly and senate by a wide margin, before being vetoed by Gov. Newsom last year. [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Gavin-Newsom-ve...

RCV or any voting system isn't better than what the current prescription is for CVRA lawsuits: having districts. It enables more local elections, lower cost of campaigning, and more minority representation. Edit: It's also easier to have neutral district lines drawn (like in CA and a few states by boards) than to pick a voting system that might not achieve the objectives of the CVRA.

If you're wondering why it was vetoed, maybe look at the history of CVRA lawsuits and how having districts has helped communities more than RCV. RCV is an apportioning method, which doesn't necessarily make it a good voting method.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#316
I've been impressed by the insight, or occasionally, lack, of awareness of the potential perils of comprehensive data archives by pioneers within the data field.

Paul Baran, co-inventer of packet-based networking, wrote "On the Engineer's Responsibility in Protecting Privacy" (https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P3829.html) in 1968, some 51 years ago. In it he remarked on both the risks, and industry attitudes:

There are many amongst us who would not hesitate to build equipment to compromise the privacy of any given individual provided the price is right. These are the whores of industry. They would not hesitate building systems and devices contrary to the public interest; their only concern is the buck.

The full paper, and in fact, all of Baran's RAND publications, are online in full-text, following my request to RAND. I remain grateful to them for this.

Baran was also interviewed for a 1966 BBC documentary:

"Well, he who has access to information controls the game. This is very dangerous. I think both your country and mine have never trusted the government completely. We do so for good reason. Here we have a mechanism that could be abused. Here we have a mechanism that would allow the creation of a dictator. . .

I've yet to see an expression by anyone in Congress about this new type of danger. In fact, we see proposals for centralizing information, we see proposals for rushing ahead into new, more efficient computer information systems, and very little thought is being given to the dangers of the misuse of these systems. . . I ask a lot of people about privacy, why they valued it, and I was surprised by the number of people who said "Well, I don't do anything wrong. Why should I worry about privacy?" And then, on the other hand, I think there's a more wise group that says, 'Privacy is really the right to be wrong, then go on and live the rest of your life, without having it mark you forever.' I tend to think this latter view is the view we should hold.

The video is, unfortunately, no longer online, though it was previously at:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FwaDvJYZTVk&t=29m31s

Internet Archive reveals that the programme was "BBC Panorama - California 2000" (1966) (https://web.archive.org/web/20180526090012/https://www.youtu...). But does now seem. to be on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/170324749 Quoted sequence begins at 31m.

Another view was expressed by AI pioneer and Nobel Laureate (economics) Herbert Simon:

"The privacy issue has been raised most insistently with respect to the creation and maintenance of longitudinal data files that assemble information about persons from a multitude of sources. Files of this kind would be highly valueable for many kinds of economic and social research, but they are bought at too high a price if they endanger human freedom or seriously enhance the opportunities of blackmailers. While such dangers should not be ignored, it should be noted that the lack of comprehensive data files has never been the limiting barrier to the suppression of human freedom. The Watergate criminals made extensive, if unskillful, use of electronics, but no computer played a role in their conspiracy. The Nazis operated with horrifying effectiveness and thoroughness without the benefits of any kind of mechanized data processing."

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a9e7/33e25ee8f67d5e670b3b7d...

There is, of course, one slight problem with Simon's argument: The Nazis did make heavy use of mechanised data processing, provided and supported by IBM. Edwin Black documents this meticulously in his book IBM and the Holocaust:

https://ibmandtheholocaust.com

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#317
post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

I saved a link to this post a few years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_beli...

I won't try and summarise it because I think I'd do a disservice to it, but it's another really good argument, ostensibly from experience, re corrupt countries and surveillance.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this argument. My normal response to "I have nothing to hide" is: "Cool, can I take a look at your browser search/reddit history?".

That argument doesn't work because some people are so conformist that every detail about their personal lives would be considered 100% unobjectionable to anyone they know or work for. (This is impossible when you know or work for diverse groups, but inside of a monoculture it's possible.)

[deleted]

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#319
post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

In the US, this argument is even easier to debunk, especially when it comes from middle-class adults who've been working for a while.

"I have nothing to hide"

"What's your salary and your spouse's salary?"

The huge amount of secrecy around salaries in the US is proof that a lot of people have perfectly innocuous secrets that they very much like to hide.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this argument. My normal response to "I have nothing to hide" is: "Cool, can I take a look at your browser search/reddit history?".

That argument doesn't work because some people are so conformist that every detail about their personal lives would be considered 100% unobjectionable to anyone they know or work for. (This is impossible when you know or work for diverse groups, but inside of a monoculture it's possible.)

I don't buy it. We all do things that although not wrong we still wouldn't like to share with anyone. i.e. No person wants to be seen picking their nose, although everybody does it.
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